What I Have Learned About Oil

1) Oil in your bike is far better than no oil.

2) The brand name of the oil has much to do with your geographical location. Some stuff just ain't available everywhere.

3) The brand name of the oil is not as important as #1 above.

4) Single grade vs multi grade is more a function of personal preference rather than any other reason I have been able to find. That and the dude at Norvil recommends straight 40 or 50 weight oil, depending on the outside temp. I will also add that the dude that rebuilt my motor agrees with straight 50. Multi grade or single grade Rule #1 still supercedes either choice.

5) The amount of ZDDP as measured in PPM should be a minimum of 1200. Many oils have this as part of their formulation some don't. There are ZDDP additive abailable if need be. I shall keep a small amount of this on hand for when travelling as I will an extra filter in case of an emergency I can get oil from a convenience store and add the zddp as needed. See #1 above as to why I can use convenience store oil.

6) Synthetic Vs Mineral (dead dinasaur) oils. While most, if not all synthetic oils that have the proper amount of ZDDP (etiher added or inclusive) most likely have longer life than mineral oil, I see no particular advantage when you change your oil every 1,000 to 2,000 miles anyway........... #1 sitll takes precedence.

7) After much research here and elsewhere, up to and including calling and emailing oil companies and those that analyze engine oils, (Not to mention I changed my mind several times before placing the order.) I have decided on a brand and weight that I feel offers the best of all worlds for me and old Snort. Easy to find, high ZDDP content, not expensive, (free shipping evun) and has great reviews from other forums and web sites. Found out some interesting and surprising info along the way. (Example: One company's single grade Racing oil has a far lessor PPM of ZDDP than their Multi Grade Racing oil, even though they share the same name!!!)

8) Just remember NOTHING Else really matters if you don't pay attention to #1!!!!!! (tounge held firmly in cheek)

Can you tell I am bored?

Dude... starting an oil thread? Must be REALLY bored. Go ride your Norton.

Hehe, I slashed through oily Gordian Knot by settling on 15-40 Rotella diesel oil in bulk jugs for everything - mower to PU to Nortons, except the cage which get better mileage and cooling with 5-30 grade. Ya know the W just means Winter flowing not the thickness in hot use. Racers using racing oil do #1's more than any the rest of us. Best I can glean is don't idle too slow for warm ups or sitting at lights.
Thank goodness I have to ride to special places to encounter a traffic light here.

What is your choice of brand of oil then???

SGOUD said:

What is your choice of brand of oil then???

Click to expand...

BRAD PENN, PENN-GRADE 1
SAE 50 High Performance Oil

I second Hobot- I use shell rimula 15/40 diesel oil (rotella in usa) in everything cars, bikes, lawnmowers and have done for 35 years. Its not the type of engine oil thats important its the amount! Oh and I get it for free (might be the main reason)

Rotella is probably just about the best choice for any older bike, and will lubricate a lot better during the crucial moments after starting, than much higher viscosity single grade oils.

Yes, I agree.
It is good to use oil! :lol:
10/40 for me.

In my Ms Peel special after break in, err first start up on 30 grade diesel flush out hi detergent i'll refill with Rotella diesel to heat cycle and dial in w/o exploding, then I'll be using some expensive specially oil too often replaced for any sense of economy but lasting throttle and tire eating joys. Oil filter changed-examined on first start up then maybe once a year or so after gallons of not used up oil through it.

The ZZDP additives are counter productive after 1200 ppm and then only function if the surfaces it contacts gets it to over 200' F, or the nano-zinc-phosphorous pads do not from a protective thin sacrificial wear off layer for starts and slow no oil wedge idle states with the most blow by of corrosive by products to absorb and buffer chemically.

Valvoline 50W Racing Oil, sticks to everything and keeps the oil pressure up, but still ends up in the sump after a few days. ZDDP too. I actually don't think it matters as long as you're not using kerosine.

Dave
69S

Yeah, but, I have never worked out why a different oil should be used for older motors. They all have the same moving parts.
Bits go round & round at the bottom, & up & down at the top.
Pink Floyd sang it.

Camshaft makers say the new oil won't protect flat tappet cams anymore.

Modern engines and modern engine oils are built to satisfy the EPA's demands for high mpg and low emissions. Modern engines do not have flat tappet cams and zddp contributes to pollution.
Heavy duty engine oils still contain the needed additives for Nortons as they are not under the same regulations as passenger cars. Jim

comnoz said:

Modern engines and modern engine oils are built to satisfy the EPA's demands for high mpg and low emissions. Modern engines do not have flat tappet cams and zddp contributes to pollution.
Heavy duty engine oils still contain the needed additives for Nortons as they are not under the same regulations as passenger cars. Jim

Click to expand...

"Performance Oils contain high zinc and phosphorous additive concentrations which can be detrimental to cars and trucks with catalytic converters. " Most of the oils that contain a higher level of ZDDP along with other additives are "recommended for off road use only"

steveyacht said:

comnoz said:

Modern engines and modern engine oils are built to satisfy the EPA's demands for high mpg and low emissions. Modern engines do not have flat tappet cams and zddp contributes to pollution.
Heavy duty engine oils still contain the needed additives for Nortons as they are not under the same regulations as passenger cars. Jim

Click to expand...

"Performance Oils contain high zinc and phosphorous additive concentrations which can be detrimental to cars and trucks with catalytic converters. " Most of the oils that contain a higher level of ZDDP along with other additives are "recommended for off road use only"

Click to expand...

I believe the law says they must be marked as off-road, motorcycle or heavy duty diesel engine oil.
Regular passenger car oils are strictly regulated and those containing ZDDP have been discontinued. Jim

Aw come on, our obsolete clunkers are more like slow turning old diesels than tight new age cars and bikes, even if we can spin em up 3x's faster than most diesels that's not how they operate for the vast majority of use. Here's a short-ish oil thread on this very subject to settle anxiety of pouring some thing with Diesel label on it as it it was a fuel station label. Plenty more on searches some way more technical but same conclusions, no worries mate's and all the better for it.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=145607

Current formulations of Delo and Rotella have less zinc than they used to have.

xbacksideslider said:

Current formulations of Delo and Rotella have less zinc than they used to have.

Click to expand...

I understand the thinking used to be the more zinc the better but now they have decided too much zinc is as bad as too little. Jim

Here is the answer I got some months ago from Spectro OIls regarding that subject :

"Hello Serge,
All Spectro motorcycle oils contain 1800ppm of zinc (zddp) and phosphorus and are perfect for use in vintage and classic bikes.
Thanks for choosing Spectro! "
Rollin

Rollin Karoll
Vice President of Sales
Spectro Oils
993 Federal Rd
Brookfield, CT 06804
800-243-8645

Ugh, another dang hobot counterpoint to ponder. I'm chemist enough to track down in past the studies that showed there is a threshold around 12-1400 ppm until its worse than no ZZDP at all. ZZDP above 1500 is for short flat tappet cam break in half hour use. Call me out if I'm full of it, I will not bite you, just thank you for setting me straight. I've already done read up on it, kind of hard to come across the studies, so find you own and post here.

There a chemical equilibrium going on that too much of a good thing can cause the reverse. Somewhere I read over 1900 ppm corrodes fine bearing metal.

ZDDP is an antiwear and antioxidant additive initially developed in 1930 to prevent engine bearing corrosion. It’s also referred to as ZDP or ZZDP. ZDDP also features excellent antiscuff properties.

Click to expand...

Here's a quote off a forum that sums up what I go by.

About 10% of the molecular weight of ZDDP is zinc, by weight.
So an oil that has 1000ppm Zn, or 0.1% Zn, by weight, is about 1% ZDDP, by weight. The precise ratio depends on the size of the alkyl side chains.
I have a reference that excessive levels of Zn/P/ZDDP can cause tappet or camshaft excessive wear. The excess wear seems to start at 1500-2000ppm Zn or P, roughly, from what i've read.
I also have an SAE article "How Much ZDDP is Enough?"
For broken-in engines without excessive valve spring pressure, the consensus of the article is that 500-800ppm P is enough.

Click to expand...

If ya can believe this mythical oil charting it says ~800 is about right.
http://www.zddplus.com/TechBrief2%20-%2 ... 20Myth.pdf

Even Johnny Carson audience knew to ask - "Just how Hot was it?"...do you?

Lake Speed, Jr., of Joe Gibbs Driven noted that zinc phosphate is not actually a lubricant until it gets hot. Once hot, it creates a phosphate glass filler on the metal surfaces, laying a foundation roughly equivalent to a painter’s primer coat. The engine oil can be viewed as the topcoat. You need a high level of zinc during break-in to establish the phosphate glass filler. While you still need an adequate level of zinc for long-term cam protection, less is needed once cam break-in is accomplished—once the glass filler has been established.

Click to expand...

Lake Speed, Jr., at Joe Gibbs Driven noted that the company developed its dedicated BR break-in oil, which contains a whopping 2800 ppm zinc, specifically to meet the needs of flat-tappet cam applications. Speed told us Gibbs developed this oil to be able to use the same oil for break-in and for complete dyno sessions. Gibbs also offers a special Assembly Grease for lobe and lifter lube during assembly.

For initial break-in, Speed recommends Gibbs’ BR or BR30. BR features a viscosity range of 15W-50, ideally, where an engine builder can preheat oil on the dyno before firing. BR30 is better suited for tighter oil clearances and colder temperatures, for the guy who changed a cam and wants to break in at home. Run BR30 for 400 to 500 miles to seat rings, then change. This dedicated break-in oil has up to as 2800 ppm of ZDDP.

Click to expand...

Note: For breaking in flat-tappet engines, avoid any engine oil if the container features the API small starburst logo. The star indicates that the oil has been formulated for new engines, from an energy-conserving standpoint. That stuff is for passenger car gas engines equipped with roller cams. Starburst oils should be avoided, at least for flat-tappet break-ins.

Click to expand...

http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/042010_07.pdf

nuff for now