What are the correct revs for timing a Pazon

Hello,

last year I installed a Pazon ignition and set the timing on 31° at 5000rpm (full advanced).
In the Pazon instruction sheet is stated:

When using a strobe light, you may see a small amount of advance above 4000rpm, this is
normal. For high revving engines you may wish to strobe at 5000+ rpm for best
results.

After refurbishing the oil pump I had to set the ignition timing again and now I found this thread :
commando-timing-advance-curves-compiled-reva-t6488.html

According to the chart and the explanations timing is 32° at 5000. I checked it already. It can defer up to 3 degrees between 4000 an 5000 rpm.

So my question: What is the better choise - 31° at 4000 or 31° at 5000rpm ?

Do I have a better idling and smoother running enigine up to 4000 when I set 31° at 4000rpm ?
This should be closer to the AAU setting with 28° at 3000 anyway. I think setting 31° at 5000 is a bit late, isn't it ?

Ralf

Timing depends on the octane, CR and cam fitted so Combat zone of engine set up can detonate or hurt ya back firing on kick offs if set to 31-32' full advance. What I and the famous respected builders suggest is creep un/dn on initial timing til hints of back fire kick offs then retard till it just don't, then look and see what time light shows. Ya don't have to hold 5000 rpm to see where timing stops, just put carpet under center stand and rev up over 5000 a few times, so less nerve wracking though no damage to run to 6000's w/o load or thank goodness it blew up at home and not far away. Cam wiggles and chain tension and Pazon's fit on cam end all skew stable top out timing so best to fudge towards retard if pressing power and rpm and octane limits.

I always fill up high octane fuel (98-100) with low alcohol (is available at all petrol stations in Germany). Kicking back is no issue. So do you think it is better to go with 32° at 5000 (= 31° at 4000) ?
Engine is totally standard.

If a standard cam and CR engine then aim for the max timing ~32' for a tad snappier power response, if ya can even tell difference from 30 to 32' range w/o dyno or drag strip slip. Everyone seems to be aiming for max power time advice but I prefer to set for best easiest first kick starts and steady idle and don't ofthen try for land speed runs nor out accelerating liter+ size moderns so tend to be retarded a bit.

Thanks for your response. I think I will go with 31° at 5000, which is more retarded, or I set 30° at 4000 which is better readable.

Towner said:

Thanks for your response. I think I will go with 31° at 5000, which is more retarded, or I set 30° at 4000 which is better readable.

Click to expand...

All of those settings are suggested. You should set to whatever runs and starts best.

Towner said:

Thanks for your response. I think I will go with 31° at 5000, which is more retarded, or I set 30° at 4000 which is better readable.

Click to expand...

A lot of this is a bit of hair splitting. On that note, the gas you use may suggest an optimal advance. If using pump premium then 30 degrees at 5000 might be high enough. I running leaded racing fuel or adding additive a degree or 2 higher may be better. I run a blend of 110 leaded and premium pump 50/50 and have always done well with 29 at 3000 with the SureFire.

A degree either way will not be noticed and if you feel the need to be right on ( I am sort of that way), then make sure you degree markings on the outer primary are acurate. Mine is 2 degrees off so 30 degrees show as 28 on the marks. I set up a degree wheel and scratched a line to 26 mark and represents 28 degrees. So when I set 29 at 3000 it is 27ish on the guage.

There are some variables, but as swooshdave says, easy starting is a big factor.

Thanks Pete,

one degree will not be noticed, you can hardly read it.
But is it right that a bit more retard is better for starting and idling ?
The electronic ignition seem to be more advanced at idle than the AAU anyway.

Even if cover dial and crank indexed to N'th degree, the down and dirty optimal is adj till hint of or actual back fire then creep back in tiny steps till it just don't and maybe one tiny step more then try it a while then put light on it to put marks down then measure those to report and record anyway ya like. You can blip up over 5000 a bit to see if it tops out within reason, after the sweetest awake up happy behavior gotten. For a few more hp and lbft at peak power, creep up and up till pings detonates on the octane then creep back till it just don't and beware the kickeroo's.

Hi Hobot,

thanks for input. That is a meaningful approach. But the problem is that I can't do these adjustment jobs at home, my neighbours would run amok. I have to ride to a place outside the town, so I want to avoid doing it several times. For the strobe job you need 2 persons additionally. When you're working at the roadside, you have to explain your issue to the Jap riders every 5 minutes: "Can I help you ?" - "Obviously not !" :mrgreen: . I think 30° at 4000 is a good approach.

Ralf

Boyers also vary a bit in the exact revs that they reach full advance, I was told by Boyer to set it on the full advance mark when you can see that it has stopped advancing.

It might also be worthwhile to use a Multi Meter with a tacho function, as it is likely to be more accurate than the Rev counter?, just connect to coil. I think that Gunsons in the UK sell a suitable multi meter.

Ugh Ralf risking a riot or disturbing the King's People's Peace is definitely a downer on Commando diddles. Sometimes, ugh, often, I curse/yell louder than peashooters. With all the variables involved my suggestion-method is most practical way while away, to set timing w/o extra battery or helper then might ride to a shop or new friend, to put a light on it to record and mark for the future. When I get to point to put a light on it for fun by myself, I arrange light wires out the way of exhaust pipes, kick off with me seated then lean over, one hand on light the other on throttle and blip over 5000 to see where timing tops out at. Its recommended that a separate battery from bike is used to power the light as our voltage can drop to mess with its timing but in a pinch for fun with yourself seems to work ok. If you got it to start w/o back fire and behaves in modern traffic you got it darn close any way ya look at it.

Micheal Tagileri in NY City lives in small up stairs apartment so has rented a small vintage size car garage whose doors open out onto side walk. He gets to it by taking the ferry carrying parts and tool back and forth trying not to be taken as a terrorist building dangerous things and extra plugs for the ones crack heads break off to make pipes out of.

I think that we're Ralf lives, the neighbours probably get upset if you wash your bike, mow the lawn etc etc on a Sunday.

I am living in a little town. It's bad enough when some biker buddies are visiting me (Britbikers). Meanwhile I have some special friends in the neighborhood. They wait for me at the garden fence when I pass with my bike to yell at me. Sadly I can't understand them with my helmet on. I think they want to show me that they can be louder than my bike :wink: .