wet sumping
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texasSlick
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Worntorn wrote:
"On the air lock, as before, I will check for oil flow after startup following weeks or months of sitting, hopefully it won't be a problem. I have not heard from anyone running a valve that this has been a problem."
I ran a tapered plug gas cock valve for over 40 years on my Atlas. Routine startup procedure was to remove oil fill cap after start and check for return oil flow. Never found any delay in return oil coming back to tank.
Slick
"On the air lock, as before, I will check for oil flow after startup following weeks or months of sitting, hopefully it won't be a problem. I have not heard from anyone running a valve that this has been a problem."
I ran a tapered plug gas cock valve for over 40 years on my Atlas. Routine startup procedure was to remove oil fill cap after start and check for return oil flow. Never found any delay in return oil coming back to tank.
Slick
Fast Eddie
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I like the 'key in the valve idea'!
On the general subject of these valves, a lot of people make the argument that turning on / off the oil valve is no tdifferent to turning on / off the petrol tap, and we all do that all of the time, so whats the big deal?
In my mind there is a big deal... if you forget to turn on the petrol tap, your bike stutters and / or stops and sooner or later you'll work out why. No harm done. If you forget to turn on the oil valve, it is a rather different story...!
Each to his own of course. But for me personally, the idea that a moment of forgetfulness could result in a wrecked engine makes the risk vs bennefit way out of balance. I am in the camp of putting no extra impediments in the line between tank and pump.
My own reflections on wet sumping are thus: I fitted a new AN pump to mine and it often gets left for several weeks at a time and it does not suffer excess wet sumping at all. Maybe a bike that wet sumps is simply an indicator that a new pump / pump rebuld is in order?!?
On the general subject of these valves, a lot of people make the argument that turning on / off the oil valve is no tdifferent to turning on / off the petrol tap, and we all do that all of the time, so whats the big deal?
In my mind there is a big deal... if you forget to turn on the petrol tap, your bike stutters and / or stops and sooner or later you'll work out why. No harm done. If you forget to turn on the oil valve, it is a rather different story...!
Each to his own of course. But for me personally, the idea that a moment of forgetfulness could result in a wrecked engine makes the risk vs bennefit way out of balance. I am in the camp of putting no extra impediments in the line between tank and pump.
My own reflections on wet sumping are thus: I fitted a new AN pump to mine and it often gets left for several weeks at a time and it does not suffer excess wet sumping at all. Maybe a bike that wet sumps is simply an indicator that a new pump / pump rebuld is in order?!?
Fast Eddie
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seattle##gs said:
I think the screw in reed valve sold by Comnoz is also a partial solution here. That lies in the sump, allowing the crank case pressure to push the oil directly back to the tank through the breather hose. I don't know, but I imagine this oil would arrive far less aerated.
Fast Eddie
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worntorn said:
Yes I get that Glen, hence my admiration of your solution, which in my world would be called a 'pokayoke'!
It wouldn't help me though cos mine doesn't have a key!
I appreciate that I'm one of the lucky ones whereby a new pump fixed the issue 'at source' ... two of my flaws are 1) being lazy and 2) liking to keep things simple... so wiring in proximity switches to the valve handle etc would breach both my laziness and simple mind !!
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So after reading though this, what is the safe way to start after sitting for an extended period of time?
My bike will sit til most likely March.
My thoughts are to drain the sump in the bottom of the engine (which has new oil now) and pour it back into the tank, start and let idle for a couple of minutes.
Yes, no?
Whats the best way?
My bike will sit til most likely March.
My thoughts are to drain the sump in the bottom of the engine (which has new oil now) and pour it back into the tank, start and let idle for a couple of minutes.
Yes, no?
Whats the best way?
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Even comnoz agrees that its impossible to hydrolock with all 2.5 qt oil drained to sump so there is no danger to list just harder kicking and maybe some ring smoke till sump cleared and ring/bore heat clearances reached. The straight forward no brainer thief stealing safe anti-wet sump valve would be electric solenoid run off ignition power so if it failed > no spark to run off w/o oil flow. Regardless I am enjoying the inventiveness applied to this annoying Cdo feature and suspect its never occurred in Ashley's always perfectly ideal functional hydrid Commando the rest of us can only wish for.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=12 ... e+solenoid
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=12 ... e+solenoid
Fast Eddie
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MikeM said:
Mike, so long as you drain the sump next March before you run it, it'll be fine.
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Fast Eddie said:
Thanks for the info. Its worked so far so I will continue. I have a newly rebuilt engine and dont want to do it again. By next spring I will have the chassis pretty well sorted out with new tires, bearings etc and want to be able to have a trouble free summer. So far this year I have gotten home everytime will all parts intact.
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worntorn said:My 650 wet sumps after about a month of sitting. When there is a small amount of oil in the crankcase it does not leak oil on the floor. Once the sump fills it starts to leak profusely. Also, I hate having to fart around draining oil and dumping it back in just to go for a little ride somewhere.
Because I know I will forget to turn on a simple valve and do not totally trust an electrical cutoutswitch, this is what I came up with as a failsafe valve setup:
When the valve is open the key fits onto the ballvalve shaft
When the bike is in storage , valve is shut off and the key cannot be removed.
Turn the oil back on and you can get your key back to turn on the ignition. Kinda like one of those shopping carts you temporarily put your quarter into, then get the quarter back when done.
I am guessing that this is something you made, not an off the shelf? I would bet that if you make a batch of them you could make some money.
Glen
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Does an external oil filter make any difference to wet sumping( I recon no a jot)but there are some who might know better?
Also is there a level indicator transfer for old fastbacks ,if I can see any oil in the sight tube I just start it, it seems about halfway up after an oil change.
J
Also is there a level indicator transfer for old fastbacks ,if I can see any oil in the sight tube I just start it, it seems about halfway up after an oil change.
J
Fast Eddie said:
Sorry Eddie I skipped right over the first part of your earlier post. It's that Evelyn Wood Speed Reading course that I did thirty years ago coming back to haunt!
Agreed, the relying on one's memory to ensure the valve is open before operation an accident waiting to happen for most of us.
A very methodical friend blew up his AJS by forgetting to turn the valve on. He went for a cool off ride after an argument with his wife! Made it almost three miles down the road before catastrophic destruction took place.
Glen
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Ugh the side effects of preventing wet sump. I'm not considered very rational on forums but Jeeze Louise is anyone but me keeping score on cranks seals, oily floors, harder cold starts vs growing list of OMG seizures. No one seems to recall or in denial of ever riding off on closed fuel taps. Nothing is fail safe but no valve or one that's in the way unless opened. The key solution works as long as don't loose key fob or unobservant thief in a hurry jumpers past it.
Too bad can't make like fuel bowl float.
Too bad can't make like fuel bowl float.
Commando 6868- Yes, just a one off so far.
Steve- How would losing the key fob matter? The valve must be open in order to lose the fob and once open can't be closed without the fob. So if you lose the key/fob handle, you break out the taped on spare key and ride home. As far as theives and hot wiring, still doesn't matter because when the bike is out and parked where it could be stolen, the oil is always turned on.
If they get past security gates, guard dog, heavy shop locks and security system, the possibility of someone damaging a stolen vehicle I no longer have possession of nor control over would be the least of my concerns. I am more worried about getting hit by lightning three times in a row.
Glen
Steve- How would losing the key fob matter? The valve must be open in order to lose the fob and once open can't be closed without the fob. So if you lose the key/fob handle, you break out the taped on spare key and ride home. As far as theives and hot wiring, still doesn't matter because when the bike is out and parked where it could be stolen, the oil is always turned on.
If they get past security gates, guard dog, heavy shop locks and security system, the possibility of someone damaging a stolen vehicle I no longer have possession of nor control over would be the least of my concerns. I am more worried about getting hit by lightning three times in a row.
Glen
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