Wet sumping

mschmitz57 · Aug 5, 2014

I recommend the Nortech Anti-wet sump modicication of the oil pump and timing cover.
http://www.amr-of-tucson.com/nortech.html

They have quick turn around and it's cheap ($70).

jaydee75 · Aug 5, 2014

Aren't most today's bikes wet sump? What do they do differently from the Brits?
Jaydee

Hobot · Aug 5, 2014

Aren't most today's bikes wet sump? What do they do differently from the Brits? Jaydee

They don't have the vintage cycle myths associated with oil flooding damage/dangers on start ups but also don't have to worry if oil enough left in tank to start up for fast oil pressure rise. Still not good if all the oil ends up in our sumps so the Time cover positive pressure valve mod makes sense.

baz · Aug 5, 2014

jaydee75 said:
Aren't most today's bikes wet sump? What do they do differently from the Brits?
Jaydee

yes a lot of bikes are wet sump but they are designed to be so and have a large sump/crankcase most british bikes do not cheers baz

1up3down · Aug 5, 2014

Aren't most today's bikes wet sump? What do they do differently from the Brits? Jaydee

yes, you are correct in that modern bikes are purposely built to contain all their oil in the engine

however, our old Nortons are built to have a separate oil tank and are of a "dry sump" design

that is how they differ

_________________________________________

I have looked for Mikes XS 650 reed valve but didn't find one. Where can I buy one and how does the metal reed valve work. It seems that it wouldn't work fast enough to maintain a negative vacuum in the crankcase?

You do not need a Mike's reed valve

I bought a Dorman 80190 "Power Brake Check Valve" for less than $4.00
and I have had the same one in place on my breather line for two years now
you can buy one lots of places and here is a good link
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-8 ... MgodmHMA0A

Also, these one way check valves are not put in by us Norton guys in order to create a negative crankcase pressure, that is not the intent

the intent is to reduce positive pressure to as little as possible, which succeeds very well in reducing minor oil leaks around the engine

Hobot · Aug 5, 2014

Ugh Iup/3dn that cheap low tech looked down on here no brainer past traditional brake valve is what Ms Peel will use between crank case and exhaust extractor and just replace as needed. Peel OIF has more height head of oil over pump so has a fail safe valve handle in the way for kicker use or foot on peg till moved out the way to open, if set up for many days at a time, other wise hope for some significant wet sump before starts. Peel has sight tube for oil level left over pump at a glance.

rx7171 · Aug 6, 2014

nortonisthebest said:
OK, I use the servo vacuum breaker valve on my Norton vent line which is still working. I installed it a month ago. I have looked for Mikes XS 650 reed valve but didn't find one. Where can I buy one and how does the metal reed valve work. It seems that it wouldn't work fast enough to maintain a negative vacuum in the crankcase?

Here it is. Scroll down to bottom of page.
https://www.mikesxs.net/search.html?q=breather
Works a charm for me and a lot of others. Zero oil leaks from engine.

nortonisthebest · Aug 6, 2014

Thanks for the info.

Hobot · Aug 6, 2014

I may just put one of these on the end of the oil tank vent hose though it may sound a bit like a whoppie cushion first few seconds. Duck Bill Scupper.

Bernhard · Aug 7, 2014

Here it is. Scroll down to bottom of page.
https://www.mikesxs.net/search.html?q=breather
Works a charm for me and a lot of others. Zero oil leaks from engine.[/quote]

Forgive me for asking, but where would you fit one of these on a magneto fired engine :?:

https://www.mikesxs.net/pdf/manuals/15-0677.pdf

Nater_Potater · Aug 7, 2014

Bernhard said:
Forgive me for asking, but where would you fit one of these on a magneto fired engine :?:

https://www.mikesxs.net/pdf/manuals/15-0677.pdf

While it's desirable to fit it as close to the cases as possible, anywhere in the vent line leading to the oil tank is better than none at all. With your magneto, where does the crank case vent line come from now?

ashman · Aug 14, 2014

Here is what I have done about my wet sumping, I put a ball valve in the main oil line, because I don't run a battery I can't use a warning device so I connect a laylad to the tap and kick starter to tell me that the tap is turned off, I only have to turn it off if the bike sits for more the 2 weeks.

I also run a Mikes Reed valve on my breather but my breather doen't go back to the oil tank, I run it into a catch bottle instead and have so for over 34 years now, the catch bottle sit inbetween my engine mounts and is out of site.

Ashley

MikeM · Aug 14, 2014

Great googly moogly! I have a new engine and for now I am running and riding it once a week. The builder did something with the oil pump (I will now ask specifically)
and I check the oil level in the tank before starting. If its in the upper level I start and run the motor. No smoke all is good. If it looks low to me I would drain the sump and pour the oil back in the tank? Yes?
Learning all the time.
The thing rides like a brick but I love it. A long way to go yet. I am so glad I rescued it.

Hobot · Aug 14, 2014

Only need enough oil to run a few second as wet sump leaves oil pump primed to return oil 2x's as fast as drains it then after about 2 min at upper idle blip speeds kill it to check real oil level. A bit of a time saver if peeking it on last shut down so after a while the number of gas tanks or run time makes ya feel guilty risking fickle oil level fate. Useage can vary enough that my best buddy always tells his lazy friend to check first and dang it - often enough he's right. Alas if you ain't up on latest best oil then even the right amount might do ya in. Somewhere after a 'puter crash I saved at home or here the half dozen mods or upgrades to get pumps pretty wet sump resistant, through total sealed gear pump might seize up and scatter its cast iron shell.

kerinorton · Aug 14, 2014

nortonisthebest said:
Hello again,
. I do not want to install a check valve in the oil supply line for obvious reasons. I hate to beat a dead horse but what really works?

you are beating a dead horse. if ypou don't want to install a ball valve like most of us sane individuals, just get out and start your bike up and run it fro 3-5 minutes every week. You wonnt suffer then.

Hobot · Aug 14, 2014

Starting our old cold Commandos should be like Samauri practice, not drawing sword unless to also to draw blood, so not a good practice to start w/o running to about full heat which is hard to do on light throttle even in still air and takes longer than five minutes to get oil temps up to point its not better to leave it hibernating till riding. Similar to turning engine to prime oil system as comnoz can attest to. Fail safe internal factory valve on pressure side of pump is most elegant solution unless ya think some wet sump for big ends to dip in and throw forward is good idea, then just a hole in lower rear TS cover ya open to drain to proper mild wet sump level set by the drain hole location which comnoz makes some sense to lower a bit from stock.

JimC · Aug 15, 2014

you are beating a dead horse. if you don't want to install a ball valve like most of us sane individuals,

Maybe not insane, but certainly not the wisest choice. The fallibility of the human mind to remember is certain. Why put anything between the pump and tank when you can put a check ball on the pump output? Not only that, but I don't consider the Gryo Gearloose gadgetry as eye appealing.

We hear from the individuals who have had an inline ball valve and never had a problem. I'm certain there are some who have destroyed an engine when the ball valve didn't get opened but don't want to admit it, here anyway.

mike996 · Aug 15, 2014

JimC said:
you are beating a dead horse. if you don't want to install a ball valve like most of us sane individuals,

Click to expand...

Maybe not insane, but certainly not the wisest choice. The fallibility of the human mind to remember is certain. Why put anything between the pump and tank when you can put a check ball on the pump output? Not only that, but I don't consider the Gryo Gearloose gadgetry as eye appealing.

We hear from the individuals who have had an inline ball valve and never had a problem. I'm certain there are some who have destroyed an engine when the ball valve didn't get opened but don't want to admit it, here anyway.

+1000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fast Eddie · Aug 15, 2014

Hobot quote: " A hole in lower rear TS cover ya open to drain to proper mild wet sump level set by the drain hole location which comnoz makes some sense to lower a bit from stock ".

Now that is a brilliant idea Steve. Why hasn't this come to the surface before in these debates?

texasSlick · Aug 15, 2014

Fast Eddie said:
Hobot quote: " A hole in lower rear TS cover ya open to drain to proper mild wet sump level set by the drain hole location which comnoz makes some sense to lower a bit from stock ".

Now that is a brilliant idea Steve. Why hasn't this come to the surface before in these debates?

The way some folks obsess over the ball valve in the oil line, now they can have another item to obsess over! Besides the ugly factor, How does one ensure the drain will not open during a ride? Safety wire it? Then it is not so convenient to use as a drain.

I have considered tapping the sump for some sort of drain valve....never did satisfy myself what valve would be safe and convenient, except possibly a tapered plug gas cock, but even so I would want some sort of safety device to ensure unwanted movement of the lever.

I have decided to bite the bullet and send my timing cover and oil pump off to AMR. $70 plus shipping is cheap enough to put the wet sump issue to rest.

Slick

Wet sumping

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