Vincent 1360
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Fast Eddie
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Hi Glen,
She's lookin' good mate!
I'm concerned though, it looks as though you're going to proceed without painting the engine black... say it ain't so !!
Anyhow, just for interest, here's the belt set up that Godet did on my Egli, I had to twist his arm to do it, and afterwards he reckoned it was too much effort and wouldn't do another, so mine was probably the only belt primary EVG in existence. It had a Newby clutch which worked great. Also of note, Patrick fitted a shock absorber into the front pulley, which was nice:
Here's the outer cover that he made deeper, and subtly vented:
I'm beginning to wish I never sold it....
She's lookin' good mate!
I'm concerned though, it looks as though you're going to proceed without painting the engine black... say it ain't so !!
Anyhow, just for interest, here's the belt set up that Godet did on my Egli, I had to twist his arm to do it, and afterwards he reckoned it was too much effort and wouldn't do another, so mine was probably the only belt primary EVG in existence. It had a Newby clutch which worked great. Also of note, Patrick fitted a shock absorber into the front pulley, which was nice:
Here's the outer cover that he made deeper, and subtly vented:
I'm beginning to wish I never sold it....
Thanks for the photos Eddie.
When I told Patrick I was using a Newby setup he sent me a photo of the vented primary cover. It must have been your cover!
He didn't mind supplying me with the cases and covers, but as you say, wanted no part of the install, which I intended to do anyway.
Then he changed his mind and would not supply the cases and covers, OH well!
I think I dodged a bullet by avoiding the MG cases, to be honest. OK for low mileage perhaps, but I will probably put a lot of miles on this bike.
The hub on your clutch is not Newby, this is something Patrick has fabricated to tuck the drive in as much as possible and still avoid cutting off the trans mainshaft. As soon as the clutch drum is moved inward a bit, the pressure plate bumps up against the mainshaft end. I cut the shaft off. It seemed sacrilege, but I have complete faith in the NEWBY clutch. The cut off part of the mainshaft is only needed if one was to switch back to a stock Vincent clutch.
Patrick must have made up the hub to fit over the protruding mainshaft and connected the hub to the pressure plate, then moved the adjuster out to the end of the hub.
Cush is a good idea, fortunately I did not need it as the bike has a very good cush drive in the rear wheel, which is ex- GSXR.
Polished aluminium and stainless on the whole bike, other than the wheel centres, which are black with red stripes, a play on the original Vincent wheels.
I am a lousy painter, but can polish with the best of them :mrgreen:
When I told Patrick I was using a Newby setup he sent me a photo of the vented primary cover. It must have been your cover!
He didn't mind supplying me with the cases and covers, but as you say, wanted no part of the install, which I intended to do anyway.
Then he changed his mind and would not supply the cases and covers, OH well!
I think I dodged a bullet by avoiding the MG cases, to be honest. OK for low mileage perhaps, but I will probably put a lot of miles on this bike.
The hub on your clutch is not Newby, this is something Patrick has fabricated to tuck the drive in as much as possible and still avoid cutting off the trans mainshaft. As soon as the clutch drum is moved inward a bit, the pressure plate bumps up against the mainshaft end. I cut the shaft off. It seemed sacrilege, but I have complete faith in the NEWBY clutch. The cut off part of the mainshaft is only needed if one was to switch back to a stock Vincent clutch.
Patrick must have made up the hub to fit over the protruding mainshaft and connected the hub to the pressure plate, then moved the adjuster out to the end of the hub.
Cush is a good idea, fortunately I did not need it as the bike has a very good cush drive in the rear wheel, which is ex- GSXR.
Polished aluminium and stainless on the whole bike, other than the wheel centres, which are black with red stripes, a play on the original Vincent wheels.
I am a lousy painter, but can polish with the best of them :mrgreen:
Closing up the gearbox. The entire gear cluster with shafts can be removed or installed as a unit thru this trap door.
A very simple tool made to install the trans mainshaft bearing retainer nut. After the nut is tight the case is drilled and a small cotter pin inserted to prevent movement of the nut. The hex head cap screws all have tab washers except for the one which is lockwired to the camplate plunger holder.
A very simple tool made to install the trans mainshaft bearing retainer nut. After the nut is tight the case is drilled and a small cotter pin inserted to prevent movement of the nut. The hex head cap screws all have tab washers except for the one which is lockwired to the camplate plunger holder.
Next is to get the belt drive mounted as far inboard as possible. I decided not to use the provided 5/8" wide aluminium spacers in favour of a 1/4" wide hardened spacer, a Vincent item pd21. The pd 21 is the hardened wear piece made to run in the trans seal, so I just double them up, one running in the seal, the other adjacent as a spacer.
This puts the clutch hub as far in on the spline as reasonably possible. The first 1/8" of the hub spline had to be relieved to allow the hub to slide fully in and contact the spacer.
With the clutch hub pushed in this far it will be necessary to cut the trans mainshaft off, as it hits the clutch pressure plate. I screwed the clutch nut on first so that it could be used as a cut guide and also as a/thread die to some extent. The thread is 3/4"x 26 tpi, not an easy find on this continent. Luckily one of my friends had a spare NOS Vincent series D clutch nut. With a slight bit of modification on the lathe, it worked and saved me waiting a week for one to come from England. At $20 vs 30 gbp the price was right too!
Mainshaft cut off
Making a bit more room for the clutch. One of the first jobs I did while the cases were apart was to use the mill to cut clearance in this case for the New by clutch. I forgot to round off the sharp edges left by the mill, so that is done here with the die grinder, plus a bit more clearance is made for the clutch.
This puts the clutch hub as far in on the spline as reasonably possible. The first 1/8" of the hub spline had to be relieved to allow the hub to slide fully in and contact the spacer.
With the clutch hub pushed in this far it will be necessary to cut the trans mainshaft off, as it hits the clutch pressure plate. I screwed the clutch nut on first so that it could be used as a cut guide and also as a/thread die to some extent. The thread is 3/4"x 26 tpi, not an easy find on this continent. Luckily one of my friends had a spare NOS Vincent series D clutch nut. With a slight bit of modification on the lathe, it worked and saved me waiting a week for one to come from England. At $20 vs 30 gbp the price was right too!
Mainshaft cut off
Making a bit more room for the clutch. One of the first jobs I did while the cases were apart was to use the mill to cut clearance in this case for the New by clutch. I forgot to round off the sharp edges left by the mill, so that is done here with the die grinder, plus a bit more clearance is made for the clutch.
Main seal and carrier goes on next.
From my measuring, a single pd21 hardened wear piece butted directly to the outer mainbearing puts the front pulley in line with the clutch hub. The pd 21 gets rabbetted out for a step in the mainshaft which protrudes slightly from the mainbearing. The step is there because the mainshafts on this crank are oversized but stepped down at the end for a standard Vincent spline and ESA fitment.
Belt drive on and in line. This is a later photo as it shows the partially completed primary cover spacer.
The front pulley had it's OD turned down as much as possible in the lathe. On the inside face it was notched to clear the seal housing made earlier. Finally, the inside end of the pulley spline was tapered zero to full size for the first one quarter inch. This was necessary same as with the clutch hub to allow the belt drive to go fully inboard and meet up with the spacers.
Now that the beltdrive location is set, the primary cover needs to be routed out to allow it to slide over the belt drive as much as possible. The standard primary cover isolates the Vincent dry clutch from the wet primary via a seal flange and seal. Won't be needing that so off it comes!
Also material is removed in the front pulley area. The trick is to remove as much al. as possible without breaking thru to nothingness.
A one inch spacer will work now.
From my measuring, a single pd21 hardened wear piece butted directly to the outer mainbearing puts the front pulley in line with the clutch hub. The pd 21 gets rabbetted out for a step in the mainshaft which protrudes slightly from the mainbearing. The step is there because the mainshafts on this crank are oversized but stepped down at the end for a standard Vincent spline and ESA fitment.
Belt drive on and in line. This is a later photo as it shows the partially completed primary cover spacer.
The front pulley had it's OD turned down as much as possible in the lathe. On the inside face it was notched to clear the seal housing made earlier. Finally, the inside end of the pulley spline was tapered zero to full size for the first one quarter inch. This was necessary same as with the clutch hub to allow the belt drive to go fully inboard and meet up with the spacers.
Now that the beltdrive location is set, the primary cover needs to be routed out to allow it to slide over the belt drive as much as possible. The standard primary cover isolates the Vincent dry clutch from the wet primary via a seal flange and seal. Won't be needing that so off it comes!
Also material is removed in the front pulley area. The trick is to remove as much al. as possible without breaking thru to nothingness.
A one inch spacer will work now.
The beginning of the spacer that I spent at least two days making. If I build another one of these engines I won't use the beltdrive, it is just too much work to fit to a Vincent. The standard Vincent oil bath triplex primary drive works very well. There are various multiplate wet and dry clutches available plus the standard clutch, which is of course very complicated but beautifully light to use.
The standard clutch was said to be good to 100 HP which is a bit less than Terry's suggested output for this motor.
That got me looking at the New by setup, tho there is nothing to say his clutch will hold up to that much power.
Bob did take the output into consideration tho and increased the number of plates in the clutch from his standard 5 to 7. I think it will hold.
Roughed out spacer. After the perimeter was ground smooth at fitted flush to the cases, as much material as possible was removed from the inside portion of the spacer. Final weight was 1 lb 1 oz. , just about the same as the weight milled away from the primary cover.
The standard clutch was said to be good to 100 HP which is a bit less than Terry's suggested output for this motor.
That got me looking at the New by setup, tho there is nothing to say his clutch will hold up to that much power.
Bob did take the output into consideration tho and increased the number of plates in the clutch from his standard 5 to 7. I think it will hold.
Roughed out spacer. After the perimeter was ground smooth at fitted flush to the cases, as much material as possible was removed from the inside portion of the spacer. Final weight was 1 lb 1 oz. , just about the same as the weight milled away from the primary cover.
Nearly finished with the primary setup. The spacer still needs to be bead blasted to match the cases. A full day was spent polishing the primary cover, which had deep scratches. It was a gift from a club member. The new primary covers are about $1,000 to purchase, so I was pretty happy to receive this one as a gift, scratches and all.
The clutch cover had to be purchased from the Spares Co. tho. It was only 41 gbp Inc shipping and is quite perfect.
I don't know why the clutch cover is so reasonably priced, most Vincent parts are not!
I know that a plastic cover of some sort would be a little lighter, but it wouldn't look quite right somehow.
The spacer provided a spot for front and rear ventilation of the belt drive. The spacer was notched out on the mill and Norton 2 ls brake vent screens fitted. I have heard horror stories of pebbles going thru open Harley belt drives and destroying components, so I wanted screened ventilation. Btw, at $47 per screen these two little Norton parts are rather dear!
The 41 mm Dellorto pumpers arrived and were tried on. Looks like some fin material must go to allow the front Carb to sit plumb.
The clutch cover had to be purchased from the Spares Co. tho. It was only 41 gbp Inc shipping and is quite perfect.
I don't know why the clutch cover is so reasonably priced, most Vincent parts are not!
I know that a plastic cover of some sort would be a little lighter, but it wouldn't look quite right somehow.
The spacer provided a spot for front and rear ventilation of the belt drive. The spacer was notched out on the mill and Norton 2 ls brake vent screens fitted. I have heard horror stories of pebbles going thru open Harley belt drives and destroying components, so I wanted screened ventilation. Btw, at $47 per screen these two little Norton parts are rather dear!
The 41 mm Dellorto pumpers arrived and were tried on. Looks like some fin material must go to allow the front Carb to sit plumb.
Thanks CJ. Having a step by step record of the build will benefit me as well, my memory being what it is! 
Here is where things are today, almost ready to hang the motor in the rolling chassis.
This photo jumps ahead several steps from the last photo above. After this I will go back to that point above and continue with the step by step thing ,just need a bit of time to sort out all of the photos.
Glen
Here is where things are today, almost ready to hang the motor in the rolling chassis.
This photo jumps ahead several steps from the last photo above. After this I will go back to that point above and continue with the step by step thing ,just need a bit of time to sort out all of the photos.
Glen
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- Nov 11, 2013
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Fast Eddie said:
worntorn said:
Hmm... I notice a trend. Note to self if I ever build a Vincent engine.... LOL!
As others have said, this is superb work. It makes me sad to have moved half way around the world from Seattle, as I would have ridden up just to gawk at it.
Wow.
Fast Eddie
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Nice solution on the primary cover Glen. looks very nice indeed.
A couple of 'expensive' Norton vents isn't even a drop in the ocean really though is it!?!
A couple of 'expensive' Norton vents isn't even a drop in the ocean really though is it!?!
Moment of truth at hand. Is this going to fit......
In this chassis?
I built the chassis 2 years ago and fitted it to my 47 Rapide engine which happened to be out of the Rapide while freshening up the paint on some frame parts.
This engine is over 1/3 larger capacity, and totally different internally, while attempting to be the same externally, except it has a lot more fin area.
On top of that the components come from many different suppliers nearly 66 years after the 47 Rapide engine was built.
I'm expecting a little trouble!
Glen
In this chassis?
I built the chassis 2 years ago and fitted it to my 47 Rapide engine which happened to be out of the Rapide while freshening up the paint on some frame parts.
This engine is over 1/3 larger capacity, and totally different internally, while attempting to be the same externally, except it has a lot more fin area.
On top of that the components come from many different suppliers nearly 66 years after the 47 Rapide engine was built.
I'm expecting a little trouble!
Glen
Fast Eddie
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Have faith Glen, it'll fit like it grew there!
Honest...
Honest...
After much ado it is in there, hopefully it will stay in for many years and thousands of miles!
Spent yesterday afternoon mounting the Pazon coils only to discover the somewhat special HT leads are too short as are the feed wires from module to coils. Why does Pazon not leave on an extra foot or two of negligilble cost wire on a $1200 ignition system?
Will either remount or splice the low tension wires and look for copper core resistor type HT wire locally.
It is surprisingly difficult to find a protected and hidden location to mount the two coils on this bike, short wires just make it even tougher.
I purchased some inexpensive 2" automotive flex pipe to use for exhaust header modelling.
Spent yesterday afternoon mounting the Pazon coils only to discover the somewhat special HT leads are too short as are the feed wires from module to coils. Why does Pazon not leave on an extra foot or two of negligilble cost wire on a $1200 ignition system?
Will either remount or splice the low tension wires and look for copper core resistor type HT wire locally.
It is surprisingly difficult to find a protected and hidden location to mount the two coils on this bike, short wires just make it even tougher.
I purchased some inexpensive 2" automotive flex pipe to use for exhaust header modelling.
Fast Eddie
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worntorn said:After much ado it is in there, hopefully it will stay in for many years and thousands of miles!
Spent yesterday afternoon mounting the Pazon coils only to discover the somewhat special HT leads are too short as are the feed wires from module to coils. Why does Pazon not leave on an extra foot or two of negligilble cost wire on a $1200 ignition system?
Will either remount or splice the low tension wires and look for copper core resistor type HT wire locally.
It is surprisingly difficult to find a protected and hidden location to mount the two coils on this bike, short wires just make it even tougher.
I purchased some inexpensive 2" automotive flex pipe to use for exhaust header modelling.
Coil mounting inside front stand cover??
