Vin 310005 mystery

Hi all, my recently purchased 850 Commando Roadster has engine/frame/gearbox number 310005 and the plate is stamped 11/73. I bought it at auction in England and the only registration paper is one from Northern Ireland dated March 2010 which states it was "previously registered or used outside GB". I've contacted the UK Norton Owners Club and Andover Norton, both of whom claim to have copies of the factory records, and neither has any mention of my bike.
From researching various sources on Commandos I am guessing that this is a MK2 that was probably exported to the USA and subsequently reimported to Northern Ireland. This is borne out by what's on the bike, specifically older type metal airbox and peashooter silencers (though after 40 years these may well not be originals). I'd like to know what it originally was and where it went, especially as it is a matching numbers bike showing only 11,000 miles. I intend to conserve rather than restore (but keeping the desirable discreet upgrades such as belt drive, electronic ignition, and uprated brakes and electrics). The main thing I don't like about it is that it is painted yellow - from my researches that wasn't a 1973/4 Roadster colour, unless you know different. That's the one thing I want to change and I'd like to get it right. I'm also very keen on researching the history of my bikes.
I would really like to track down any info relating to my specific bike - are there any sources that I am not aware of? I'm thinking that maybe in the States there may be a way of accessing registration or importation records? Anyone with a vin number close to mine? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, Pev

Mine is 3104** and stamped 11/73 manufacture and is a MK2A if that helps.

Try the VMCC who also have factory records.

Does your bike have the factory Norton US handlebar bar with 5" rise (06-1046), or the factory Norton UK handlebar with 2" rise (06-4132)? Answering this question might shed some light on your suspicion regarding the bike coming to the US and returning to the UK, assuming the bars on the bike are still the originals.

http://www.oldbritts.com/70_20.html

My MK2 has a mfg date 6/74 and serial # 3167**.

Thanks for the prompt responses. My bike has 06-4132 UK bars but they may well have been changed at some time. Interesting that both the other Commandos are MK2 or 2A. Leaving aside the issue of my airbox and silencers, my understanding is that the MK2A was a low emissions edition for Europe and the UK whilst the USA got the full fat MK2 - the only differences bieng airbox and silencers. Leaning towards it being a MK2 but confirmation would be nice, also advice on colour options.
I'll also try the VMCC library on Monday - thanks for the tip, I am a member.

Leaving aside the issue of my airbox and silencers, my understanding is that the MK2A was a low emissions edition for Europe and the UK whilst the USA got the full fat MK2 - the only differences bieng airbox and silencers.

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Yes that's correct, as there is no illustrations for the 850 MK2A parts book there may be other differences, the battery carrier may be one to look at as its a more permanent fixture, the MK2A one puts the battery sideways so its widest across the width of the bike, and the earlier carriers put it lengthways. Another clue would be the carbs as the MK2A is stamped with different numbers eg MK2 932/29, 932/30 and MK2A 932/35, 932/36.

Thanks Kommando, very useful information not documented elsewhere as far as I know.
I've just been out to the garage and sure enough, the battery is oriented along the frame and the visible carb numer is 29 so if it wasn't a MK2 before it is now!

I think the NOC and VMCC both have access to the same factory records that were passed to the VMCC by the Science Museum.

As far as I know, it's only Andover Norton that has most of the surviving records for the 850 models, however from previous discussions it is apparent that probably about a third of 850 production is missing from the AN records, unfortunately.

I've got a '74 MK II, Roadster, 317343, July 74. I received the original airbox and carbs, although it had a Mikuni on it when I bought it. The carbs and airbox are in a box somewhere here in the basement.

Wouldn't all MKIIA, the model with the plastic airbox, have a left-hand sidecover without a toolbox tray, and lower right corner with an indentation for a plastic zeus-like attachment? Also, in order to accommodate mounting of a replacement metal-mesh style, MKII airbox, in a stock fashion, the battery tray would have to be switched, as a MKIIA model would not have the mounting hole for the lower airbox mount that a MKII would require (I think).

I thought I read something somewhere in this thread about the chain guard and rear wheel style with the inspection plug for the brakes, which I don't see now. My bike has the style of chain guard and the brake cover with the inspection cap. When did the factory begin to fit MKII and MKIIA 850's with the chain guard and inspection plug on the rear brake cover?

Robert_Norton said:

When did the factory begin to fit MKII and MKIIA 850's with the chain guard and inspection plug on the rear brake cover?

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January 1974.

L.A.B. said:

January 1974.

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Whence this info comes from ?
Not that we'd doubt or dispute it....

Rohan said:

L.A.B. said:

January 1974.

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Whence this info comes from ?
Not that we'd doubt or dispute it....

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I know the answer to that! He got it from the 850 Mark II/IIA Parts Supplement p/n 06-5988. This supplement works with the Parts Manual p/n 06-5034. If you have a 850 Mark II or Mark IIA I recommend getting the supplement. There are actually quite a few different part numbers listed in the supplement. Unfortunately there are errors in it and also there have been a lot of continual changes to the Mark II's and IIA's after the supplement was published.
Pete

Thanks for the info on the MK2/2A distinction - I'll try to hunt down that parts book supplement. Great stuff that you don't get from the standard books.

If, as I now believe, it is a MK2 then it was exported from new - probably to the USA as that was the major export market. I'm still wondering if there is any way Vin numbers can be traced in the USA (or in other countries such as Australia or any in Europe) - possibly via taxation or importation records.

pev said:

I'll try to hunt down that parts book supplement.

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06-5988
http://www.andover-norton.co.uk/JRP/JRNORTON.HTM

Thanks for the heads up - Googling the part number you gave, I found an online version here:
http://issuu.com/sealycycleservice/docs ... 2a_06-5988

pev said:

- are there any sources that I am not aware of? I'm thinking that maybe in the States there may be a way of accessing registration or importation records? Anyone with a vin number close to mine? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, Pev

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Records resources in the US are non existent as it would depend on east coast or west coast as to original distributor. From the distributor the machines went to the dealers and registered in the corresponding state. That give 50 states data base of which there is no archive to pull from. Sorry. The best source is the factory records and as mentioned those are not very complete for 850s. Also after the long period since shipment, details of air cleaner, carb numbers...etc are indicators, but not conclusive as previous owners like to modify intentionally or by need of replacement over the years.

I agree with you yellow is not by choice of color either. Black, metallic red, metallic blue and white with blue stripe are original roadster colors for 1974. The US has both Mk2 and Mk2a examples imported. Not sure why, but perhaps different environmental requirements in different states. Interesting to note all JPN models in the US for 1974 were Mk2a...in my experience.

I wonder if they sold Mk II"s in the UK. My 850 from July 74, has a Joe Francis sticker on the front guard.

Dereck

My 850 is 312xxx Feb 74, has bung in backing plate and the little add-on to the chain guard
with crossover exhaust pipe, but no idea what the original silencers were. Ham can air
filter.