TVS Future

ntst8

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I wonder whether someone who claimed to have designed the bikes in house still has a job?
 
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We seem to be talking at cross purposes. I’m not blaming TVS, on the contrary really, I feel sorry for them as I think they got truly shafted (AKA Garnered). They bought a company with 3 ‘ready to go’ motorcyle platforms, yet here they are, many months into their ownership and they have zero. In fact the only ‘progress’ seems to be them finding even more problems!

So, they’re gonna have to start again with the designs it seems. Therefore, if they’re starting with new designs, it really seems that all they bought was a name with sketchy TM provenance. Oh, and a big headache caused by the old companies designs of which they had not part in!

I sincerely hope they proceed and succeed, there’s a lot of value (PR etc) in a V4 type flagship bike. And the 650s were very well received by public opinion, and should sell well.

But if their press releases are true, and they’re having to virtually re engineer the entire bikes (V4 and 650s) then there’s no way they’ll be on sale this year…
Many of the issues that are turning up are with peripherals, the design of the V4 seems sound, as you expect from the bloke that designed the 675 Triumph. The issues seem to be, as I said, with cutting corners. I dont agree that they have zero, the V4 and the 650s will I think be very important for them. From what I have read its not totally re engineering, its getting right the things that were rushed and skimped on.
They wouldn't have put the investment in this that they have with a new factory for example if they don't have a viable plan and I see the V4 as a major part of that.
 
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We seem to be talking at cross purposes. I’m not blaming TVS, on the contrary really, I feel sorry for them as I think they got truly shafted (AKA Garnered). They bought a company with 3 ‘ready to go’ motorcyle platforms, yet here they are, many months into their ownership and they have zero. In fact the only ‘progress’ seems to be them finding even more problems!

So, they’re gonna have to start again with the designs it seems. Therefore, if they’re starting with new designs, it really seems that all they bought was a name with sketchy TM provenance. Oh, and a big headache caused by the old companies designs of which they had not part in!

I sincerely hope they proceed and succeed, there’s a lot of value (PR etc) in a V4 type flagship bike. And the 650s were very well received by public opinion, and should sell well.

But if their press releases are true, and they’re having to virtually re engineer the entire bikes (V4 and 650s) then there’s no way they’ll be on sale this year…

I wouldn't feel sorry for them, they're big boys after all, just look at their over zealous trademark infringement campaign....
I would guess the name and the good will and nostalgia that surrounds it is of more value to them than the dog ends of Garner's custody of it...
 

Fast Eddie

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Many of the issues that are turning up are with peripherals, the design of the V4 seems sound, as you expect from the bloke that designed the 675 Triumph. The issues seem to be, as I said, with cutting corners. I dont agree that they have zero, the V4 and the 650s will I think be very important for them. From what I have read its not totally re engineering, its getting right the things that were rushed and skimped on.
They wouldn't have put the investment in this that they have with a new factory for example if they don't have a viable plan and I see the V4 as a major part of that.
They have said that they are unable to repair the current V4s. That indicates major design / engineering flaws, certainly not peripherals.

They have also shelved the 650s ‘indefinitely’… as above, that can only be because we are talking about big issues / big changes.

And the 961 is on its final 40 run (may already be finished).

So, in terms of motorcycles that they can build and sell, CURRENTLY, they got nuthin’ !
 
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Fast Eddie

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What about something that stands apart from the herd like a modern rotary?
Couple of problems with that idea Clive, firstly is that Rotaries are notoriously difficult to run ‘clean’ as they expel unburnt fuel and oil out of the exhaust. So getting them through modern emissions would be a challenge me thinks.

Secondly, I don’t think anyone on Norton’s payroll has any Rotary experience at all. Brain Crighton was ‘the man’ with these bikes, but his employ under Garner, very early on, was very short lived. Garner was going to make a super sports Rotary, there was even an option to ‘express interest’ early on, which I did. But, no Brian = no Rotaries…!
 

Clive

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Couple of problems with that idea Clive, firstly is that Rotaries are notoriously difficult to run ‘clean’ as they expel unburnt fuel and oil out of the exhaust. So getting them through modern emissions would be a challenge me thinks.

Secondly, I don’t think anyone on Norton’s payroll has any Rotary experience at all. Brain Crighton was ‘the man’ with these bikes, but his employ under Garner, very early on, was very short lived. Garner was going to make a super sports Rotary, there was even an option to ‘express interest’ early on, which I did. But, no Brian = no Rotaries…!
I'm picking up the vibe that you don't think its one of my best ideas? ;)

However the electric supercharger is looking promising - will try it on the zxr400 first..... :)
 

Fast Eddie

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I'm picking up the vibe that you don't think its one of my best ideas? ;)

However the electric supercharger is looking promising - will try it on the zxr400 first..... :)

Did you miss the bit where I ‘expressed interest’ in buying one?! So I think it’s a splendid idea… just not a viable one !
 
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I do think the Norton name deserves a flagship model.... A big shame the V4 wasn't to be, nor the (800cc?) Rotary mooted earlier. Let's hope TVS do have something similar up their sleeve...

But they'll still need the 'bread and butter' models to keep the fires burning.... Tannoy loudspeakers are a good example, perhaps?
 
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I do think the Norton name deserves a flagship model.... A big shame the V4 wasn't to be, nor the (800cc?) Rotary mooted earlier. Let's hope TVS do have something similar up their sleeve...

But they'll still need the 'bread and butter' models to keep the fires burning.... Tannoy loudspeakers are a good example, perhaps?
The V4 'wasn't to be' ? They are currently re engineering it for release.
 
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Couple of problems with that idea Clive, firstly is that Rotaries are notoriously difficult to run ‘clean’ as they expel unburnt fuel and oil out of the exhaust. So getting them through modern emissions would be a challenge me thinks.

Secondly, I don’t think anyone on Norton’s payroll has any Rotary experience at all. Brain Crighton was ‘the man’ with these bikes, but his employ under Garner, very early on, was very short lived. Garner was going to make a super sports Rotary, there was even an option to ‘express interest’ early on, which I did. But, no Brian = no Rotaries…!
Stuart Garner showed me the rotary engine and I must admit it did look the business but he said if it didn't deliver on the dyno it would be shelved.
 

Fast Eddie

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Agreed, but a shame it fell so heavily at the first hurdle, no? That must affect public preconception and buyer confidence, perhaps?
Not if TVS get it ‘right’. If they get it right first time, they’ll be able to benefit from the ‘completely re engineered‘ headlines and I think the market will be strong personally.
 

Fast Eddie

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he said if it didn't deliver on the dyno it would be shelved.
Kinda my point. They’re a ‘black art’ unlike any other internal combustion engine. And without someone like Crighton, it won’t deliver, and no one will know how to make it deliver …
 
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Stuart Garner showed me the rotary engine and I must admit it did look the business but he said if it didn't deliver on the dyno it would be shelved.
Of course it could deliver, that is why it got banned from racing.
 
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