TVS Future

Dommie Nator

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cut and paste from Nortons FB Page for your information and consideration on the direction of TVS Norton product development……​

Norton Motorcycles supports student electric motorcycle research with WMG, University of Warwick​

Norton Motorcycles engineers have supported students at WMG, University of Warwick to develop a TT capable electric racing motorcycle, named ‘Frontier’
This includes donating a high performance bike frame and data to students undertaking research into study of electric motorcycles at WMG, University of Warwick
Students adapted the sports bike platform to run a specially developed electric powertrain rated with a power output of 160kW/201bhp and 400Nm torque
Immersion-cooled 16kWh battery pack is the first of its kind for application on a motorcycle, with battery cases manufactured using advanced laser-welding technology to deliver structural integrity and maximise reliability and repeatability.
The Norton Motorcycle Co Ltd is proud to support students at the University of Warwick who are researching the future of electric racing motorcycles. The group of students undertaking the project are aided by the donation of a sports bike frame by Norton Motorcycles, which has been adapted by the student team to be fitted with an electric powertrain, with batteries and control systems designed in-house.
The group of 13 students at WMG, University of Warwick – made up of cross-functional team from first- to final-year degree students, with the support of some EngD students – are joined by a selection of leading academics, engineers and researchers representing WMG, at the University. On-campus research has been reinforced with input, support, mentoring and technical guidance from Norton’s own designers and engineers, further to the supply of the frame.
The finished electric racing bike next to a model of the Norton Motorcycles frame it is built on. The full team from left to right are: Robert Driver – Battery Testing & Characterisation Engineer, David Cooper – Precision Engineer at WMG, Professor Dave Greenwood - CEO of WMG High Value Manufacturing Catapult, Tom Weeden – the professional rider for the team, Lee-Rose Jordan – Project Manager, Student Projects at WMG, Malcolm Swain – Lead Engineer a WMG, Martin Neczaj – Chief Chassis Engineer at Norton Motorcycles, James Grohmann –Lead Design Engineer (Student), Aman Surana – Chief Engineer of Warwick Moto team (Student)
The research team supported by WMG Centre High Value Manufacturing Catapult have developed an electric motorcycle powertrain, using a high performance sports model as a platform. The electric powertrain designed to work in the Norton frame is rated with a power output of 160kW or 201bhp, and delivering 400Nm of torque from a standing start. The acceleration and speed characteristics of the electric bike in motion roughly translate into a combustion-engine equivalent of around 900cc to 1,000cc – only slightly less than Norton’s own petrol powertrain, they have called the bike Frontier.
The electric motor draws power from an immersion-cooled battery pack that has been designed and tested by the students and is the first of its kind for application in an electric motorcycle. The battery with a capacity of 16 kWh is designed to last longer with the application of robust thermal management strategies, while also allowing for larger short term power peaks required by a racing motorbike.
In addition, the cooling system will enable the team to operate at a more efficient temperature range by optimising the starting temperature of the dielectric fluid prior to a race or testing, based on the requirements of the track.
The battery can be recharged with the common CHAdeMO connector, facilitating fast charging where available and allowing for a full charge of the battery in around an hour (up to 80% from empty in just 32 minutes). These impressive figures have supported the testing and development of the electric bike prototype, with research teams able to maximise riding time on the track thanks to reduced charging times, allowing for further track-side development and optimisation with the help of a fully instrumented bike.
The battery case was manufactured using laser welding techniques developed at WMG, The University of Warwick, a manufacturing process that is easily repeatable for potential serial production, while also incorporating process-control to maximise reliability and strength of the joints.
Students have been able to craft a functioning electric motorcycle based on the Norton frame in just seven months. The project began in October 2020 with the donation of the frame and associated parts, with students working hard to realise their goal alongside studying for their degrees. The bike has undergone significant testing including much computer-based validation such as CFD of battery cooling, modelling around thermal management, along with physical testing of cells and modules – whilst constantly reviewing engineering decisions to minimise and mitigate the risk of failure.
Aman Surana, Chief Engineer of the Warwick Moto team, said:
“Ever since we started the Warwick Moto project, the overall goal has always been around learning and enhancing our engineering experience. We have gained practical experience in our research that is required to deliver a real-world project, along with balancing considerations such as tight budgets and deadlines, while learning logistics and everything around delivering an industry project. This has made us all the more proud with the way the Frontier looks.
“To have access to Norton’s engineering team, years of experience and data has been a great resource, integral to the design of the bike. Combining the motorcycling knowledge from Norton, with the leading research at WMG, University of Warwick has been a fantastic learning opportunity for all students involved. We’re very excited to see what this collaboration leads to.”
Dr Robert Hentschel, CEO of Norton Motorcycles, said:
“We are thrilled to be able to support the engineers of the future, who are developing tomorrow’s technology today on the basis of a Norton frame. Our support by means of donation of the frame is just the beginning. Norton’s team of designers and engineers have been very interested to observe how this project is taking shape, supporting the student team wherever possible with advice and guidance.
Follow the Warwick Moto team’s journey:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/warwick.moto/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/warwickmotoracing/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/warwick-moto/
..."TT Zero Interest" has been cancelled though.
 

StuartSF2015

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Report in MCN today states that the TVS ‘new for old‘ swap on V4s has been retracted staing the information provided was innacurate!
 
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I'd love to see a big long stroke single again, if you look at the way the trend is going with ADV bikes at the moment there's a bit of a backlash against the big bikes speaking from experience having had a 1200gsa te, f800gs an a 1000xt I've much preferred using lighter kit for adv riding I've actually been looking at Himalayans a fair bit since they came out so with the pedigree Norton had with singles back in the day I'd love to see a new big4 as someone else mentioned a nice simple to work on bike with a great chassis would be so good do a retro adv styled affordable 125 as well lots of people my age seem to be buying the modern Bonnies. It would standout a bit as a comparison a nice Norton single to the Himalayan give it decent ground clearance get it as light as possible that'd appeal to me an I'm probably one of the younger riders.
 
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Another step backwards it seems, no V4, no Atlas models, no 961, and nothing on the horizon it seems.
Looks like they just get off on sending threatening letters from TM solicitors, to those clubs globally that could promote their bikes in the future, nice way to start out, not. So no bikes, no news, threatening letters to all and sundry, for what reason would I buy a bike from these chumps who own a TM whose history they nothing about.
Wouldn't be surprised if we don't see any bikes from them in the future. So come on TVS, what is the future, maybe someone young and fresh could explain not some old harley retiree wearing rose tinted goggles.
As per the OP, this announcement was actually old news, it was in the Indian press back in May, seems they like a UK factory, but don't have the minerals to make announcements in the UK press. Says it all really.
 

Fast Eddie

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So, no V4… No 650s… No 961… doesn’t leave much in the cupboard does it?
Maybe they have just bought the name to stick on some ‘retro’d up’ existimg TVS platform after all. I certainly hope not though.
 
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I'd love to see a big long stroke single again, if you look at the way the trend is going with ADV bikes at the moment there's a bit of a backlash against the big bikes speaking from experience having had a 1200gsa te, f800gs an a 1000xt I've much preferred using lighter kit for adv riding I've actually been looking at Himalayans a fair bit since they came out so with the pedigree Norton had with singles back in the day I'd love to see a new big4 as someone else mentioned a nice simple to work on bike with a great chassis would be so good do a retro adv styled affordable 125 as well lots of people my age seem to be buying the modern Bonnies. It would standout a bit as a comparison a nice Norton single to the Himalayan give it decent ground clearance get it as light as possible that'd appeal to me an I'm probably one of the younger riders.
Take a look at the Honda CT125 if you want a trail 125. Mine will on the road tomorrow.
 
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So, no V4… No 650s… No 961… doesn’t leave much in the cupboard does it?
Maybe they have just bought the name to stick on some ‘retro’d up’ existimg TVS platform after all. I certainly hope not though.
Why no V4 ? They have certainly announced they will be producing more. Also the 650s haven't been cancelled. Maybe give them a chance to get up and running before writing them off
 
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Sadly the V4 disaster is going to hang over them even if not their fault. The faults too extreme to pick up the bill and gain some excellent PR in the process. If they can distance themselves from this successfully, why not just a re-engineered commando range, surely worldwide sales, make in Britain and as reliable as the big bike producers with a supported dealer network. Get that right and then introduce another retro bike or new scrambler
 

BritTwit

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....why not just a re-engineered commando range, surely worldwide sales, make in Britain and as reliable as the big bike producers with a supported dealer network. Get that right and then introduce another retro bike or new scrambler

From your lips to God's ears.
 
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I think they're turning their back on the 961 will prove to be a disaster. Norton not making a commando is like Frenchs not making mustard or McDonald not making burgers. It is who they are.....or were.
 

Fast Eddie

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Why no V4 ? They have certainly announced they will be producing more. Also the 650s haven't been cancelled. Maybe give them a chance to get up and running before writing them off

There’ll be no V4 in its current format, it’ll be a different bike if they do proceed, that is evident from their comments that the current bike is not reparable! Ditto the 650s, they have been ‘postponed indefinitely‘. And they’ve just made the final 40 961s.

So, if these bikes aren’t viable as they stand… they have nothing in the cupboard. They bought a company with three ‘going concern’ platforms. As things stand, they have none !
 

Clive

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A heavily disguised prototype undergoes tests at a secret location near Birmingham..
So do you think it'll be compliant for Birmingham's Low Emission Zone?


It's amazing how even non bikers who couldn't tell the difference between an MV and an MZ still comment on how good the 961 looks: to my mind the design with the name is the biggest (only?) asset the company has. So do you reproduce it in a low-cost Enfield form or keep it as a premium product with an appropriate power plant? What about something that stands apart from the herd like a modern rotary?
 
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I think they're turning their back on the 961 will prove to be a disaster. Norton not making a commando is like Frenchs not making mustard or McDonald not making burgers. It is who they are.....or were.
They aren't turning their backs on the 961, Garner sold manufacturing rights to a Chinese company. Also there is absolutely nothing to say they won't be making Commandos. They have a new interim factory, I think they intend making bikes, give them a chance lol
 
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There’ll be no V4 in its current format, it’ll be a different bike if they do proceed, that is evident from their comments that the current bike is not reparable! Ditto the 650s, they have been ‘postponed indefinitely‘. And they’ve just made the final 40 961s.

So, if these bikes aren’t viable as they stand… they have nothing in the cupboard. They bought a company with three ‘going concern’ platforms. As things stand, they have none !
Norton have announced a heavily revised V4 which could start production the end of the year, that also opens the door for the 650 twins.
 
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They aren't turning their backs on the 961, Garner sold manufacturing rights to a Chinese company. Also there is absolutely nothing to say they won't be making Commandos. They have a new interim factory, I think they intend making bikes, give them a chance lol
The would need to pay the Chinese company a licence fee, that would surely grate the nerves after spending all that money. Not sure, other than the TM, what they actually bought and if all these designs (with the notable exception of Kenny Deer's 961) are so bad why is Skinner still on the payroll.
 
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The would need to pay the Chinese company a licence fee, that would surely grate the nerves after spending all that money. Not sure, other than the TM, what they actually bought and if all these designs (with the notable exception of Kenny Deer's 961) are so bad why is Skinner still on the payroll.
None of us know the situation and human nature means we just fill in the gaps ourselves, they obviously bought enough to make it viable for them. A lot of the issues don't seem to be the designs but cutting corners in production. I can only assume he is still on the payroll because he is a very talented designer.
 

Fast Eddie

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Norton have announced a heavily revised V4 which could start production the end of the year, that also opens the door for the 650 twins.
We seem to be talking at cross purposes. I’m not blaming TVS, on the contrary really, I feel sorry for them as I think they got truly shafted (AKA Garnered). They bought a company with 3 ‘ready to go’ motorcyle platforms, yet here they are, many months into their ownership and they have zero. In fact the only ‘progress’ seems to be them finding even more problems!

So, they’re gonna have to start again with the designs it seems. Therefore, if they’re starting with new designs, it really seems that all they bought was a name with sketchy TM provenance. Oh, and a big headache caused by the old companies designs of which they had not part in!

I sincerely hope they proceed and succeed, there’s a lot of value (PR etc) in a V4 type flagship bike. And the 650s were very well received by public opinion, and should sell well.

But if their press releases are true, and they’re having to virtually re engineer the entire bikes (V4 and 650s) then there’s no way they’ll be on sale this year…
 
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