To FullAuto owners, needed a file before mounting?

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NKN said:
Mark said:
NKN said:
On the other side, did other buyers needed to file it before mounting?

To FullAuto owners, needed a file before mounting?
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Inadequate quality control processes.
A lack of attention to detail, the machinist should have caught that.
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Towner said:
but the poorly made threaded holes would annoy me as well.
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Ouch, for at least two of you, I'm not that excessive and demanding :roll: Perhaps we should meet, you deserve a fresh beer :D

BTW thanks for "straight" reading, understanding and answering following the thread spirit.



For others:

Towner said:
All this dents at the fins would be no problem for me
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Fast Eddie said:
But as for the other 'issues' ...
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Matchless said:
Perhaps the only way to make the casting perfect is to die cast them.
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Fast Eddie said:
The issue regarding casting imperfections in FA heads have been raised here before. The thing is though, what is an imperfection? Especially on a sand casted process? Basically, there is no such thing as a perfect sand casted component.
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lcrken said:
No insult intended, but I think you might have unrealistic expectations for the quality you get from even a very good sand casting.

Ken
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Looks like I might have been misunderstood because I am not complaining about cosmetic. Just take time to read again, because I don't think it's about my little English this time:

Just received # 164 FullAuto, first impressions is that I like the new old look. What I'm trying to say is that even if brand new, it has some cosmetic "defects" that make it look like a NOS part. Fins are not all exactly perfectly the same just like on a RD 400 for example AND I LIKE IT LIKE THAT. Also for that, but not only of course.


Onder said:
Maybe better to ask the seller these questions first. After all you did buy it from him and not from us.
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Read again, it was done ;-)




And as I said here:

[...] Also for that, but not only of course.


OK it is in a very few words, but it is what I'm thinking. So thanks to the followers that have helped me describing it and saving me some time consuming in translating, I totally agree with those ones:

Fast Eddie said:
The head looks dreadful.
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Matchless said:
overall it is far better than any original Norton twin head I have ever seen.
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cjandme said:
but the improved flow and better aluminum alloy used in making them, seems worth the cost in my book. I believe that we are all lucky that they are even available to us in this day and age. I remember a time when you really had to scrounge for parts, now it's a smorgasbord, from cranks to lighter pistons & longer rods to electric start replacement primary's , belt drive options, complete replacement TTi gear boxes, new cylinder heads, new brake kits, rear set foot control options, digital clocks, improved rear swing arms, etc...etc...etc... there has never been a better time to own and ride a Norton :D
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lcrken said:
Compared to a stock Norton head, the quality of these is far superior. You're looking at what are really minor cosmetic details that have no effect on function. I have no doubt that Ken could produce something that would be close to perfect, even by your standards, but to do so would require more detailed inspection and the resultant scrapping of many heads. If you scrap half the heads to ensure a higher level of artistic perfection, you have to at least double the price. Not realistic for this market. I agree that the threads don't look that nice, but probably work just fine for their purpose. Being a little compulsive myself, I'd probably install inserts, knowing all the while that I didn't really need to.

Along with most of the other forum members here, I'm just grateful to Ken for the time and money he's invested in making these available. I'm sure his return on investment is still ridiculously low, so it's clearly a labor of love.

Ken
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Voilà voilà, have a nice day.
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My offer to take it off of your hands, still stands !!
 
baz said:
J. M. Leadbeater said:
Clearly made to British standards...why do a job correctly?/ Quality Control whats that??........ Just like the heads produced by NVT when they took in house casting the porous lumps but apparently,so I am often told, great fun can be had trying to weld fins back on the ******* lumps! wonder what the pattern makers in Doncaster would say if they saw one of these heads?
I really must make it to Duxford one last time and take a look at the beautiful fins on those WW2 Americal aero engines....if they could do it why cannot others these days. Yee gods it isnt as if the fin depth is anything like as great on the Norton head......Of course if the pratts in charge at NVT had not had all the patterns burnt as they(mismanagement) went around telling the World they would never be producing such things again.....as Mr Negus reminded me many years ago as he showed me the first off new 750 / 820 crankcase manufactured on the new patterns they had made.....Of course i did ask him ' where is the camshaft oil bath Mr Hopwood so carefully designed into his Dominator engine?' and quoted Mr Hopwoods letter to me .... 'The camshaft oil bath was designed to retain as much oil as possible.....the lip should run within 1/8 to 3/32 of the flywheel rim to pick up oil from it........' The next time I visited I was told it was tooo expensive to have the crank case pattern modified.......so whenever a friend builds a new 920 motor for a customer he has to reintroduce the oil bath into the expensive brand new crank cases....
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That's hilarious ,how to get from cylinder head enquiry to missing crankcase oil bath!!!!!
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Hey don't knock him... At least he refrained from expanding into belt drives and clutches ... :roll:
 
Due to the nature of the item, I cannot say that any of the defects mentioned could be considered a deal breaker, although I can feel for the somewhat disappointment.

I would surely consider threaded inserts in those manifold mounting holes and not use them as is.
 
pete.v said:
Due to the nature of the item, I cannot say that any of the defects mentioned could be considered a deal breaker, although I can feel for the somewhat disappointment.
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Let's have a beer :wink:

pete.v said:
I would surely consider threaded inserts in those manifold mounting holes and not use them as is.
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Good input, but living in a metric country, I have to learn what size are those threads and what is the next bigger size for threaded inserts?
 
Whenever I work on my Seeley, I need an armful of different size spanners and Allen keys. If your bike is near standard, I suggest you keep it all British nuts and bolts.
 
When I started racing, Dave Degen's chastised me for leaving my legs dangling when pulling away from the start line.

Actually a lot of riders share this bad habit, caused, I suspect, by concentrating so much on other things, there's no mental capacity left to deal with dangling legs!

But as Degen's pointed out "you look an untidy bugger... And if you don't get your legs out of the way, someone else might" !

Its amazing how close riders can get in the hustle and bustle of a race start, and I 'm thankful that Degen's chastising got me into the habit of putting my feet on the pegs ASAP!
 
acotrel said:
Whenever I work on my Seeley, I need an armful of different size spanners and Allen keys. If your bike is near standard, I suggest you keep it all British nuts and bolts.
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Perhaps you could give me an answer to my question? I'm not talking about spanners and allen keys but about threads :wink:



Fast Eddie said:
When I started racing, ...
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Not sure it's the place where you wanted to put this info.
 
NKN said:
acotrel said:
Whenever I work on my Seeley, I need an armful of different size spanners and Allen keys. If your bike is near standard, I suggest you keep it all British nuts and bolts.
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Perhaps you could give me an answer to my question? I'm not talking about spanners and allen keys but about threads :wink:



Fast Eddie said:
When I started racing, ...
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Not sure it's the place where you wanted to put this info.
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Quite right... Wrong thread altogether...!
 
The thread for the intake is 5/16-18 (UNC)

When you get an insert kit you will get a specific tap and a drill bit (or given the size bit you need to use)

Also, did you get this head from one of the Fullauto dealers ?

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com
 
cNw said:
The thread for the intake is 5/16-18 (UNC)

When you get an insert kit you will get a specific tap and a drill bit (or given the size bit you need to use)
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Good input, thanks :wink: I'll first try to find this in France, if not found I'll have to cross the Channel.


cNw said:
Also, did you get this head from one of the Fullauto dealers ?
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Yes, it came directly from Andover Norton. Why that question?
 
I have read this thread with interest, I have also see a Fullauto head but will not be buying one as the standard one is fine for my use.
There are a lot of people here standing up for the heads which are surely of a significantly better standard of build from standard heads, don't think anyone can argue with that.
They are expensive although Im sure that reflects fully manufacturing costs:
However, IF the threads are as they appear that is not right. The head should be sent to the supplier for it to be remedied, I'm sure there will be no argument.
 
The reason I ask is because I feel that regardless what kind of parts we are talking about, the dealer has a responsibility to make sure that was is being shipped is good.

Sometimes when I have a batch made of a specific part, there are a few that don't pass and it's important that I make sure what we have on the shelf is good. Even if it comes from another vendor, it has the be checked out

That said, at times things slip through the cracks. At that point it's important to hear back from the customer so whatever the problem is can be corrected

Andover is top notch so I am sure they would take care of you (if you wanted them to). The Fullauto heads are hard to get, so they may not have more on the shelf but it may be worth a try

Matt / Colorado Norton Works

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com
 
It is hard to tell from your picture if the threads are not good but in case they aren't I would fit helicoils as they are much stronger. Btw original thread size is 5/16" BSW (not UNC, however this is often used and 5 degree cutting angle difference isn't noticable).
 
nortonspeed said:
It is hard to tell from your picture if the threads are not good but in case they aren't I would fit helicoils as they are much stronger.
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NOT!
 
For what you paid for this premium product, I wouldn't be prepared to go to the additional cost of doing an insert job on it, at your own cost.

AN provides outstanding support for their products. I would discuss sending it back with them first.

I you're confident and mechanically inclined, and the threads are just a bit rough, and not that bad (which I can't tell from the pics), I would run a tap through the threads to try and tidy them up.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Looking at your pictures, the threads may not look that fantastic, but as far as I can observe, they look very useable. I would personally not bother for helicoils or other thread inserts immedeately.
 
Helicoil would be good, but as only as good as the thread that it locates in, the new thread may not be cut any better than the one you now have. Not sure what FA heads are made from, it maybe of an alloy that is super strong and thus the remaining good threads may exceed the strength of a full good thread in an original head.
 
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