The late Percy Tait and Slippery Sam was beaten by a Norton

If you look at that photo I posted, the reason I think that number 7 is Percy Tait, is you can see the oil tank inside the fairing at the right hand side of the motor. I think I read somewhere that he did not like the 500cc Triumph twin, and I don't blame him. I learned to race by riding my short stroke Triton which had a 63mm stroke. These days when I race my Seeley 850, I do it easily because what can happen to me has already happened. I go nowhere near crashing. 'Torque wins races'.
 
acotrel said:
A short stroke Triumph twin can beat a Manx, but it is a much more difficult ride. It is easier to ride a Manx fast. QUOTE]

Many people have tried, and not succeeded, I don’t know which 500 engine that old stalwart Dave Degens (Dresda) used

The 500 twin was tuned by that ex-Norton employee Doug Hele (he of Norton 500 Domiracer fame);

https://www.classicbikeguide.com/percy-taits-triumph/


https://www.bing.com/images/search?...8EC0502D3F37DDD6987853BA2013D8480&FORM=IQFRBA

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...index=13&ajaxhist=0&vt=0&eim=0,1,2,3,4,6,8,10
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"Percy finally bought his old racer from the factory but when he decided to concentrate on sheep farming, he sold it to Mick Hemmings, a classic Norton and Triumph specialist in Northampton."

That's what annoyed Les Williams as he said it's completely untrue and led him to write what he did.
 
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We may never know if that's true, Les Willams passed away in July 2019 may he R.I.P.
 
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The late Percy Tait and Slippery Sam was beaten by a Norton
Bernhard said:
We may never know if that's true, Les Willams passed away in July 2019 may he R.I.P.
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Well I still have what what he wrote of how it came about why Percy went, what happened there and what happened to the bikes that he took. The machine that Percy sold to Mick was an unfinished replica.
I'll post the tale up later on.
 
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Percy Tait's Triumph 500 was based upon the late 50s 5TA type motor which until the 70s had the plain bearing on the timing side end of the crank. The factory bikes probably had a proper bearing. For a privateer, it would have been difficult to get one going well. I have only ever seen one 1973 Tiger 100 for sale and I figured that I could not afford the racing gearbox for it. So I did not buy it. If you were going to go down that path, it might be better to simply buy a Paton 500. - Cheaper and better in the long run.
 
If you learned to race well by riding a short stroke 500cc Triumph twin, then got on a Manx - you would beat anyone who was riding a 500cc Triumph twin and most others who were riding Manxes. - But who needs the pain ?
 
acotrel said:
Percy Tait's Triumph 500 was based upon the late 50s 5TA type motor which until the 70s had the plain bearing on the timing side end of the crank. The factory bikes probably had a proper bearing. For a privateer, it would have been difficult to get one going well. I have only ever seen one 1973 Tiger 100 for sale and I figured that I could not afford the racing gearbox for it. So I did not buy it. If you were going to go down that path, it might be better to simply buy a Paton 500. - Cheaper and better in the long run.
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The 500 Triumph that was raced at the Daytona 200 was an updated unit construction type " tweaked" by Doug Hele. The pre unit engine became obsolete.
 
My short stroke 500 was a 650 pre-unit motor stroked to 63mm in a featherbed frame. The factory 65.5mm stroke 500 might have been marginally better. But I don't know how they would stop it from being nasty. The Domiracer that Tom Phillis rode, was probably longer stroke with a heavier crank. It would have been a much nicer ride These days, I can almost not bear to think about my racing the short stroke Triumph. I don't know how I survived. The good thing is that these days if I race, for me - it is easy. What can happen, has already happened.
It is interesting that Bill Horsman started racing with a short stroke Triumph - he also makes racing look easy. My advice is - don't do it - buy a Manx.
 
Dommie Nator said:
View attachment 13856

Well I still have what what he wrote of how it came about why Percy went, what happened there and what happened to the bikes that he took. The machine that Percy sold to Mick was an unfinished replica.
I'll post the tale up later on.
Click to expand...

Ok, you got me hooked just with that photo of a few lines of text!

What is this? Was it ever published? If not, why not??

I wanna read it....
 
500 domiracer was 66x 73 stroke but LOTS of unchangeable parts with a 88 SS. It would reputedly rev to 10,000 rpm, so Doug Hele really got to work on this engine as he did with the 531 tube lowboy frame. Since, to date, I have never rode a 500 twin Norton or Triumph, I cannot comment. I once raced a 500 Honda 4 with a Yoshimuria cam that increased the revs to 13,000 and what a quick 500 that was, but not on par with a Manx.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Ok, you got me hooked just with that photo of a few lines of text!

What is this? Was it ever published? If not, why not??

I wanna read it....
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I don't know if it was ever published as Les moved back to Wales not long after dealing with the aftermath of the NMM fire in 2003 and apart from a few phone calls I lost touch. This was written early 2000s I think after an article similar to the recent one linked on this thread was in the magazines.
I should have asked him if it was ever published. It might not have been as it might show certain people up in a bad light and Les was a gent.
 
acotrel said:
Number 7 - behind Phil Read. And look at what the others are riding.

https://ibb.co/fDcqR0L
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Yes, what a nice photo it is -- and I'm sure there are stories abounding. So many works bikes and look at the helmets from the time - Read, Ago, Ivy, and a yellow stripe behind Ago -- could that be Ray Pickrell? Even some chap over on the left on a rather ungainly grey bike -- I wonder if he ever did well?
 
Blewdy Yaink said:
Yes, what a nice photo it is -- and I'm sure there are stories abounding. So many works bikes and look at the helmets from the time - Read, Ago, Ivy, and a yellow stripe behind Ago -- could that be Ray Pickrell? Even some chap over on the left on a rather ungainly grey bike -- I wonder if he ever did well?
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It looks like Mallory Park. Yes that's Ray Pickrell with the yellow banded silver helmet. Did no one mention Hailwood on the left?.

I'm going to ask Les Williams widow if she knew if Les got his story published.
I've let Fast Eddie have a look. as he's a mate.
 
Dommie Nator said:
It looks like Mallory Park. Yes that's Ray Pickrell with the yellow banded silver helmet. Did no one mention Hailwood on the left?.

I'm going to ask Les Williams widow if she knew if Les got his story published.
I've let Fast Eddie have a look. as he's a mate.
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Thanks for that - it's been far too long since I was at Mallory Park to recognize that Start Grid. It is a great photo -- and yes, I did mention Mike Hailwood but only while being a smartass.

I would like to see that story from Les, with provisions that I'd keep it confidential if needed. (I'm sure that many of us would.)

Best wishes, B Henderson, NC USA
 
Blewdy Yaink said:
Thanks for that - it's been far too long since I was at Mallory Park to recognize that Start Grid. It is a great photo -- and yes, I did mention Mike Hailwood but only while being a smartass.

I would like to see that story from Les, with provisions that I'd keep it confidential if needed. (I'm sure that many of us would.)

Best wishes, B Henderson, NC USA
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Ah, yes, the comment went straight over my head about MH lol.
I've spoken with Joan Williams this morning and she didn't remember. However, his second book is coming out around now so I will get a copy and have a look and see if it's included.
 
And somewhere in that crowd overlooking the start line is little old me drinking from my flask a hot cup of tea, with choc biscuits, saying to my mates "we know who's going to finish first I wonder who's going to finish second" this became the norm on all the UK'S home internationals for the next couple of years until mr Honda finally took that screaming banshee 6 cylinder bike off him, even thought they no longer did any GP racing in the last year Hailwood had it. . . . Sight . . . . Those were the days. . . . .
 
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