The FREE Norton from ED in NH

DogT said:

I agree with possm, it has the 69/70 seat, central oil tank, 71 or later headlamp. Chainguard may even be 68 or so. Little bit of mish-mash. Looks like a best improved project. Mine wasn't quite that bad a shape cosmetically. Welcome and get your wallet out.

Dave
69S

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Dave I noticed today that the bump-stops welded on the Neck don't line up with the ones on the lower Triple-Tree and that it turns completely beyond them - So possibly not the original Trees or Forks? and hey like you said.. It's a mish-mash..

But It being "complete".. That's the best part !

Let's see.. From today alone.. The Oil Tank LEAKS from corrosion at the bottom, The Clutch Chain is junk as is the clutches of course.. The Trans is stuck in Neutral.. The plastic oil lines to the rockers are hard and crack easily.. ALL cables are junk from the Speedo to the Clutch to the front and rear brakes.. SEIZED..

Uploading another Video and it will be ready in about 5 minutes.. Going good and NO FEAR..

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsgAgHPVzQU[/video]

This is what I would like my Rims and Hubs to look like.. and don't miss the one a few after it where you can see the Spokes.. (url link)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWYZ8EfxeD0

Rob

Jeandr said:

I detected a slight Boston accent, am I right :?:

If you keep it to paint, polish AND lots of elbow grease, you can have a runner for less than what was quoted before, don't forget e-bay, there are many engine parts going for peanuts.

Jean

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Indeed Boston.. or close enough.. about 40 minutes away due north is Manchester, NH. where I live now.. But I grew up in a small Town called Dracut, Mass. that is even closer by 5 exits... So GOOD EARS !

Rob

DogT said:

I think Nelson hit it right. It is a '70 with some later front end parts for some reason. Yes the seat is important if you want the 69/70 look. I got a nice seat cover from Walridge for that year, the pleats were a bit smaller, but not real noticeable. You may need some new padding too. Mike at Walridge will tell you that there was no Norton logo on the back, but I have a 69/70 'S' and Roadster Riders Handbook and it shows the silver Norton logo on the rear of the seat with a silver bead along the bottom.

Just being anal. Take your time and have fun with it. I have about 8 years in my restoration. Keeps the finances more reasonable too.

Dave
69S

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All well noted.. I'm about cleaning it up and getting it running.. Pretty parts can come later.. But while It's apart completely the big stuff like the Frame will get powder-coated now.. I'm thinking either Flat Black Wrinkle or another Old Machine looking Color.. By no means "To the T Restored". I don't have that kind if Money... My version would be super clean, old looking and RUNNING smooth.. Powdercoating for me is reasonable as a good friend does it all day long.. I get the Color and deliver the parts.. DONE in a day..

Look at it this way.. It was either I get it for FREE or the Junkyard did... right?

Will do what I can but It won't be thousands of Dollars.. Just bear with me..

Rob

Congrats, Rob, and welcome to the club... you're in the right place. Hopefully, you don't have a high maintenance woman, or a kid in college, and you'll be able to get it right without the better part of a decade, as mine did. cheers, Don

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If Rob keeps up this pace up then only the $10,000.00 part may apply, not the decade long tedium. Rob hope you keep your enthusiasic momentum going but the real Nortoneering awaits to test your Motorcycling wits and will power - has yet to be faced. You might be in denial state yet on that first show stopper of crank pulley, 'oh I'll just get to that nuance when it cools off... I didn't give it but test tug or three... going by success so far.

But you've the right attitude and ain't afraidy cat of HIGH Heat. I hope your optimism of using mere knock off puller for the crank sprocket comes off as expected. I've used ordinary steering wheel puller but its can strain that before relief. Norton version is about 3x's more robust and build to keep the foreces square to the task. I hope don't impress you, but a real stuck sprocket make that detail pop out if the puller don't first. May need up to 3# sludge to budge.

Fasteners and tread forms vary so need metric, SAE, Whitworth and HIGHLY Recommend a Metrench type set that grabs odd size and buggered-dissolved nuts by the sides. Only thing fit my factory '72's rear case/cradle mount bolts is 9/16" SAE. So I tossed those 2 spare SAE wrenches in the Norton box of tools.
Gear box mount bolts may be like that too. Special 2 tooth pin tools needed for front hub bearings though a biting chisel drift will work, after smoking heat.

Oil pump is likely the most pristine easy to service component left on that mess.
Its end nipple is the thing thats particular and throw away often. Getting the cam nut off can strain the distant pinon shaft that's basically just stuck in a wide place in thin case unless cover installed. I've a cut down cover you can use if nuts don't give it up by your own attacks.

Swing arm spindle likely fussed and lipped. Plan on puller plus Sludge Hammer. But can be so stuck its hopeless to save swing arm. I've lost two, one by such extreme pulling and drift-Beating, [each miss in frustrated fatque broke skin and hand bone through heavy glove], could not be made to pass a spindle again by a famous Norton frame man, another I got smart after full scale normal failed, so torched in off and took too BullDozer Shop whose hydraulic press read 22,000 PSI before the spindle began to move out of cradle. To me anyone who does not convert to grease system is doing great dis-service to future owners.

Head is tricky to get off-on in frame d/t pushrods fauling the rocker arms, P-rods must go up past rocker to clear barrel to remove sideways. I find it easiest to take out gear box then the 2 isolastic bolts and use cradle as lever and handle to hosit the whole thing up and out the LH side. Then funner to attack the case botls. May need lots of razor blades to get case to split, but don't hammer them in but 1/8" in some places as there's a cast lip inside of seam.
Of course that assumes you can free barrel from pistons and barrel from cases.
Bike falls in half w/o the engine in place, so end of rolling it around unless struts to replace engine cases. I prefer a ski hook in my shed, nothing under bike
except to lower down on blocks to stabilize swinging/twists.

I've hit two show stoppers on past road worthy '72, barrel nuts by part number have wrong thread and the over wide front iso mount tabs are too narrow to fit the adjustable isolastic mount in - using spreader botl and wood block with 3# sledge hard, so once in and released pinched iso adjuster so hard can turn the adjustment w/o damage to it or the peg used to turn it, ugh. Took front mount back out, levering power unit way up, to have machinist take off ~.030" so slips in/out easy and plenty gap adjustment to dial in the silent zone. '70 bike has thin shim torture-or-avoid system, so add those upgrade to parts list.

Await juicy details of another piece revealed, and still savable.

hobot
Arkansas Ozarks, 1 factory Combat, one future sort of a Commando.

Answers:

No kids in College.. Three Boys and a Girl.. The youngest is Tyler 12 then comes Casey 19, Ashley 21 and Steven 23 with his own Son Jaden 3.. I work on Food-Service Equipment all day long during the week.. Things like Meat Grinders, Hamburger Machines, Etc.. The BIG STUFF.. So flush-broken-bolts are a specialty as is Stainless Hardware (whole truck full) So that's a PLUS+

Now that the Chain for that forward Sprocket has been cut and removed the idea was a Gear-Puller and plenty of Heat.. I'm assuming there is a Seal behind all that and It's going to be crapola by the time I'm done..

Can't wait to get the Engine and Transmission OFF so it can be cleaned UP and OUT.. Dad is the Machinist so oddball stuff I cant handle at home he can at Work.. :lol:

I mention "Friends" in the Videos.. One buddy does Powder-Coating and Aluminum Casting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA_8nyTAg2g

another does Polishing: ( I just rewired his HD and gave him my Old Mig Welder)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnge-RdpJHg

I'm the Mechanic/Electrical/Welder Type..
Actually if you can get me a PART for ANYTHING I can FIX the thing!

This may sound VOODOO - But Is there any way of reversing the Pedal Controls? I would so screw that UP and end up kissing the Bumper Sticker of a Car one day.. :lol:

"140578 would make it 1970" - Thanks Nelson.. any other Numbers I should be looking for?

Thanks Hobot - I read every paragraph.. Before I destroy any bolt heads I will refer to your notes.. MAP GAS is your friend.. Toss that Propane Torch in the Trash! they have AWESOME HEAT..

With my poor Rotten Norton it will indeed be different.. So plan on seeing things you might not have seen or expected before.. I'm not bragging but the ideas at this point are limit-less and I don't listen to what others say from the Couch when It comes to building something the way I want to build it..

I have never owned a Norton.. I rode on THIS ONE only ONCE when I was a Kid and now It's mine.. Mine to rebuild (not restore) restore would be back to factory.. I can't plan on Factory with my Budget.. But Factory Spotless in a different Fashion is GOOD.. Powdercoating parts to what I want for CHEAP is the best way for me.. and yes polishing parts too..

Like I always say when I see something that I wouldn't drive "Hey.. It's his.. not mine.. IF he likes it then It's all GOOD"

Rob

Norton vs. Rotten - Way too close in letters!

OK let me jump in on my own post here and toss some IDEAS and mention what's going ON with the "Rotton Norton"

The water you see coming out in the Video was indeed from sitting all those 15 years under the make-shift roof thing.. Condensation, Moisture, Evaporation.. all that.. Building up over the years and mixing in with the Oil makes for a nice creamy brown Baby Poop color (puke) :shock: Amazingly enough it just washed off with Hot water..

As to what lurks in the center cavity of the Engine? Well cross your fingers.. Not that we couldn't get new Jugs or Pistons on the cheap as mentioned.. Been there.. done that.. But It's all about getting it turning-over again..

OK I have a question for the all-knowing.. My 3 day Class on Norton's is limited to rusty/corroded/parts removal.. But I have ambitions.. Clean, Straight, Sharp looking.. nuf said!

Oh yeah the QUESTION.. DUH:
Do they have "Aft" controls / pedals where the levers are further back? say if your leaning forward on a Cafe Racer and your legs were not shoving your knees into your Chest (almost typed Balls) :roll:

Rob

RobsNorton said:

Oh yeah the QUESTION.. DUH:
Do they have "Aft" controls / pedals where the levers are further back? say if your leaning forward on a Cafe Racer and your legs were not shoving your knees into your Chest (almost typed Balls) :roll:

Rob

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Search "rearsets" or "rear sets".

I love to watch hyper active people working on new projects!
Almost any Commando you want as your own and fully fettered requires taking down to the flywheel and back out. I know too well the addiction of customizing with special features and functions, she calls her self Ms Peel. But its a pain in the ass and wallet to have to special source or reproduce vitals vs just calling a vendor with a part number. At some point you may feel guilty removing a Norton from normal gene pool, so you may want to may amends to the future by getting a second one going by the good book. Anywho this is the place to find or express new ideas and cutting edge goodies being offered.

Thanks for the MAP gas advice, have not tried one yet, thought I was past needing them on my Nortons, silly me, learning as I go. Theres a lot to be said for air impact on stubborn fasteners. Hunt down big long 1.5" end wrench for the gear box sprocket and remember its a LH reverse thread, Or make your own socket extension. You'll see how once its uncovered.

Rear sets is the term and here's a taste of whats out there - to model your own special version and placement. Personally I like the kind that retain the fabulous Z plates but hey factory Z plates are as special as navels.
post77136.html?hilit=rear%20sets#p77136

RobsNorton said:

Dave I noticed today that the bump-stops welded on the Neck don't line up with the ones on the lower Triple-Tree and that it turns completely beyond them - So possibly not the original Trees or Forks? and hey like you said.. It's a mish-mash..

Click to expand...

Definetly not the original "triple trees". The original ones are Dominator yokes with additional threaded bosses on the underside of the upper yoke and extended pinch bolts - both needed to attach the headlamp bracket, called a halo. If you see it you'll know why.

1970-roadster-references-and-detail-pictures-t5389.html#p50059

The end stops are different.


Tim

All read and well noted.. I did like this part "I love to watch hyper active people working on new projects!" :mrgreen:

I also just posted a new Video.. All the Bolts are out on the Head and It's on the Floor.. You get to see what remains of my Jugs.. I can always buy better stainess steel bolts & parts later.. But right now It's about getting an Engine together that will WORK so It's not all in VEIN..

As to the ODD Bolt sizes I found that a 14mm fits them enough to get them off.. Tomorrow I want to get a Parts Organizing Box or a Tackle-Box and put things away labeled in it.. as of right now I have no problem remembering what went where.. but let's be safe and catalog the parts eh?...

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbpBWqLZDOw[/video]

I figured she would be a great match to go behind my 1931 Chevy on a Trailer in the Future..

8)

Jamming a screwdriver in to split the cases? :cry:

Don't forget the little hidden* screws holding the cases apart.

Jean

* they are slot head 1/4-20 screws, sometimes hard to see

Nice find my friend u will have many many years of fun with that one, they become a member of the family Must feel good after waitin all those years, well done!

Rob Slow and down learn about what you are playing with, the spanner type you want is whitworth and the head and barrell nuts and bolts will be cycle thread which will not be available at your local hardware shop, as we have previously discussed most of your bike is 1970 which has some rare parts on it e.g. the rear guard which is perculular to 69-70 and very rare ask dave[dogt] and you have one, as also are the speedo and rev counter.

Jeandr said:

Don't forget the little hidden* screws holding the cases apart.

Jean

* they are slot head 1/4-20 screws, sometimes hard to see

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All screws are out and the 2 hidden ones.. the Screwdrivers just holding it apart.. Thanks!

Rob

swooshdave said:

Jamming a screwdriver in to split the cases? :cry:

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NO Jamming involved.. just the tip holding it apart.. Sort of a Sword in the Stone at the moment..

I did also find the slotted screws that hold it together at the bottom...

Actually the case is apart and It's fine.. The Crank? not so good.. I think it was parked because the Counterweight is cracked..

Pic's later.. and no I didn't hammer on the thing.. Maple Mallet.. no damage.. no hard hits.. If the Counterweight was broken it was before I started..

Rob

Counterweight cracked? Hard to imagine however the crankshaft is 3 piece and they have been known to break due to the earlier main bearings.

So, don't sweat the main bearings being trashed, Norton upgraded them in 72 to what are known as "superblends" (spelled $uperblend$), due to many many engine failures caused by excessive crank whip. That repair is a given anyway on the earlier commandos.

Great luck nothing really bound-distorted-fused.
You have makings of a real hot rod for not much expense.
You've got the fast flow small port heads, now all ya need is 2S Combat cam and bump CR up to 10-ish and lighter steel flywheel-crank, and tuned up 2-1 exhaust.
Race level 7mm valve kit helps up flow and rpm limits and response.
If you can recover points auto advance mechanism then even better response than most if not all electronic ignitions you can't program.
Al rims are acceptable rim and handling upgrade. I'm going tubeless if I can get spokes sealed w/o approaching mass of a tube anyway. Speed ratings on tires are for tubless runs, a tube reduces rating by a speed letter.

If you care to hunt down and spank angry sports bikers then ask me about Watt's like triangulated helm-rose jointed linked isolastic tamer downer huge Goldwing solid light wt. trials bike flinging mod.

You can't hardly do better than spend on the handful of hi end advancements offered by Nortoneer's on this addictive forum.
Cranks, cam, piston rods, carbs-EFI, alternator, ignitions, drive train and special seals and fork kits. Fast as you are, will take a bit to catch up with the pack on custom mods and performance.

I liked my oil tank mods that gave easy drain tube that doubled as oil level sight.
Temperature sender put in lower front was very informative to watch.
Oil changing is a too frequent messy over tedious chore other wise.
So help on wet sump to stop crank with rods at TDC btw.

possm said:

Rob Slow and down learn about what you are playing with, the spanner type you want is whitworth and the head and barrell nuts and bolts will be cycle thread which will not be available at your local hardware shop, as we have previously discussed most of your bike is 1970 which has some rare parts on it e.g. the rear guard which is perculular to 69-70 and very rare ask dave[dogt] and you have one, as also are the speedo and rev counter.

Click to expand...

OK what is this "rare guard" you speak of ? - I know what the other parts are.. and nah not going fast at all.. :wink: It's been 5 days now.. Been reading all night.. every night.. learning and once a day I make a Video if possible of what I find after gingerly opening it up.. I appreciate the concerns.. 8) - I want to see her together as much as most of you all..

Rob

Rob,

The spanners that dont fit the bolts, dont fit because they are a different unit of measure (Whitworth). Most of the bike has whitworth nuts and bolts on it. Purchasing Whitworth spanners and sockets will make your life a whole lot easier. Many websites sell them, heres one link to Rabers they'll have all the Whitworth stuff.
http://www.rabers.com/parts/tools/index.html

Matt