Thank you and a question about commando value

Hi all,

After i crashed with my Commando 850 in October, i set a deadline to get it on the road for this years season. Not that it is that hard, but family and my house is time consuming. Anyway, this week was the first time i took the commando out for a ride again with new frame, fork, wheel etc. Apart from a few minor things (turn signal short, mirror loosening itself) it is running better than before.
A big thank you all for answering the questions i had. This is a very mature and helpful forum!

Now, yesterday, my commando was outside for the first time in a long time and someone was pulling over. I live in a quiet village in Belgium and know most of the special vehicles around. He told me he also had a commando in his garage, but did not know anything about it, or what it was worth. So i went for a look. It was in a garage less than 500 meters from my door.
Things i know at first sight. It is an American import. 1974 High rider 850. Tank, handlebar and (not original) seat are high rider. Has had a few upgrades (or downgrades if you will) (Pazon, single mikuni, dunstall silencers). It needs as good as every rubber part replaced, chrome part rechromed and zink plated part replated. I did not check engine or gearbox numbers yet. Frame seems to be a MK3 one, so probably was replaced in the past. Front brake cylinder is stuck. Engine turns. Obviously it needs a total rebuild.
Now, for me this seems to be the ideal bike to transform into a custom racer/caferacer. The owner told me just to place a bid, but i need some advice. Unrestored commando's are really not that available for sale around here, and a running one for less than €8000 is hard to find. What would you guys think a fair price would be?
Maybe the seller would be glad the bike would stay in reach to drive it in the future.

I want to offer a fair price, so everybody can be happy about the possible deal.

Thanks already!

US$2,000 if he has registration papers for the bike. go up to 2500 if you really want it.

A truly fair price can't really be determined until the bike's been ripped down, & the full cost of the restoration is known. Otherwise it's a how long is a piece of string kind of question. A bike that needs everything done, could easily consume 8000 Euros, especially if you need to pay labour costs too. So even picking up the bike for nothing could still be an expensive proposition. But if the damage is mainly superficial, & the restoration not that costly, you could even make a profit (not that that's your objective here). If the Seller's that local, why not have a flexible pricing plan, depending on what you find when you start twirling the spanners. Then neither party feels like they've been ripped off. You never know, you might even end up with a new Norton Buddy. :wink:

dave M said:

US$2,000 if he has registration papers for the bike. go up to 2500 if you really want it.

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I'm not sure about the Belgian value, and a fair price will be whatever the two parties finally agree on, but just across the channel in the UK a fair price could easily be double that amount in USD.

L.A.B. said:

dave M said:

US$2,000 if he has registration papers for the bike. go up to 2500 if you really want it.

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I'm not sure about the Belgian value, and a fair price will be whatever the two parties finally agree on, but just across the channel in the UK a fair price could easily be double that amount in USD.

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Hi,
I agree with Les.
In Italy if you wish to buy a good Commando with the registration title it will costs not less than 10.000 euro and 6.000 Euros for restoration.
Ciao
Piero

The owner got it as a lot together with an accidented ferrari. He likes the Norton, but i advised him it is more of a bike that needs 'getting involved with'. He has other bikes (speed triple, yamaha) to drive and would rather get involved with getting the ferrari on the road i think.

$2000 (€1700 i think) is not realistic around here i'm afraid. Even though i know the owner paid less. Not because it's materialistic value is higher. But there are just no unrestored commando's for sale anymore. At least not trough the regular channels. I remember the Podevyn auction a few years back. I was there, and even very incomplete or accidented commando's went for €3000 and more. And that was when suddenly more than 50 were sold at the same time.

I'll go back next week to check more details and Numbers. I would like to buy it, as this is an investment i could handle. A second already restored bike is not within reach for now.

E1700 to E2000 may be low as you said unrestored examples are just not available through regular channels. I would not consider this a regular channel though. Being forthright about value to the current owner and what you would like to offer may get you a deal both of you can be happy with. The potential hassle with advertising the bike for sale or going through a broker or even dealing with unknown potential purchasers could make just rolling the Norton down to your house worth selling it for less money than prime.

Biscuit said:

E1700 to E2000 may be low as you said unrestored examples are just not available through regular channels. I would not consider this a regular channel though. Being forthright about value to the current owner and what you would like to offer may get you a deal both of you can be happy with. The potential hassle with advertising the bike for sale or going through a broker or even dealing with unknown potential purchasers could make just rolling the Norton down to your house worth selling it for less money than prime.

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+1 It's possible he would be more inclined to work you a "deal", knowing that it'd be going to a good home where it would be brought back to life.

Thanks for the advice everybody!

Let's hope we can work out a deal on this one!

dave M said:

US$2,000 if he has registration papers for the bike. go up to 2500 if you really want it.

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That would be a good price for a basket case (disassembled in boxes).

Prices are rising I paid $3500 USD for a complete non-running MKIII and that was a pretty good deal. Prices for running original bikes needing restoration run higher than that.

A couple thousand $'s on the front end really doesn't make much difference if you plan a total restoration...only that the bike is relatively complete and having a free spinning engine is a plus.

This is the cheapest Commando I have seen here in NZ for a while, about 4K US
I do like the " unmolested look" and parts all laid out.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbi ... 719481.htm


other end of the scale here.
18K NZ , 14K US

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbi ... 707213.htm
or this for 24K US


I don't think you can compare prices in different markets easily, too many variables.

My suggestion of $2,000 is on the basis that you already have a Commando, if you want another one get one from the US I have noted recent examples of bikes ready to ride away (allegedly) on Craigslist for 8 to 10 thousand US$. I am aware that many bikes go for considerably more than this, but my point is that there are still examples that look pretty good (not basket cases or project bikes) for the lower range that I mentioned.

From your description this bikes needs a complete restoration, this will certainly cost in excess of $5,000, if you buy the bike for 3,000 then you will be no better off financially than if you simply buy one from the US, plus you then have to do the work to restore it. This is the basis on which I suggest you make a lower offer.

The question to ask yourself is 'Do you really want or need another Commando' and if so why have you not been searching for one prior to this? If the answer is no, then this is simply an opportunity to acquire another bike at a price that is too good to pass up, not an opportunity to buy a bike at market value - you can do that any day of the week once you decide the answer to the first question was actually yes.

dave M said:

My suggestion of $2,000 is on the basis that you already have a Commando, if you want another one get one from the US I have noted recent examples of bikes ready to ride away (allegedly) on Craigslist for 8 to 10 thousand US$. I am aware that many bikes go for considerably more than this, but my point is that there are still examples that look pretty good (not basket cases or project bikes) for the lower range that I mentioned.

From your description this bikes needs a complete restoration, this will certainly cost in excess of $5,000, if you buy the bike for 3,000 then you will be no better off financially than if you simply buy one from the US, plus you then have to do the work to restore it. This is the basis on which I suggest you make a lower offer.

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Not to say that there may be $2000-2500 deals out there. They guy down the block that doesn't know what he has maybe. But most complete bikes are more than that non-running.

Your second statement is more to the point, although $5000 USD to restore might be questioned by most here. The figure is closer to $10K USD and that would be doing most of the work yourself. I started with a $3500 investment and am over $10K (including the cost of the bike) and not finished yet. I expect to spend $10K+ on the restoration alone.

Purchasing a finished bike for $8-10K makes sense for some people, but many of us enjoy the process of building our own bikes. If this is the OP's intent then that option wouldn't make sense. Then there is the question of what you are actually buying.

The equation of cost really is pretty simple, if you start with a good core and pay less for it, you save a "little" money assuming it's really a "good" core. In the end if you want a quality restoration you will spend the same as everyone else...or a lot more if you have it restored by one of the quality restorer's.

There are 'restorations' and there are respectable 'riders'. A good solid foundation that needs some work will cost a lot less to get road worthy than anything that must be 'restored' in the owner's eye. For instance, a chain guard or a chrome wheel with just a bit of rust may be totally serviceable, likewise a dirty frame with some scratches. The cost to put these things right on a 'rider' is elbow grease. If your goal is a restoration, you will pay the same to either re-chrome/replace or powder coat these items whether the were total junk or just not brand new looking.

Any resto's a can of worms until it's opened up & the truth revealed. That's why, in some ways, when talking about a non-runner, a basket case could be preferable to a complete bike. As at least you know what shape the internals are in. Of course you'd need to know Nortons very well, or have a complete list of all the parts that should be in the basket, to make sure you're buying a complete bike. & you'd still need to do a thorough inspection of all the parts, to make sure they're still serviceable. But being able to see the bore, & work out how many re bores it's had, & how many more it can take before needing a re-sleeve, could save a lot of money down the track. I think I'd be trying to talk them into lifting the head, so an internal inspection can be done.

72Combat said:

This is the cheapest Commando I have seen here in NZ for a while, about 4K US
I do like the " unmolested look" and parts all laid out.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbi ... 719481.htm

other end of the scale here.
18K NZ , 14K US

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbi ... 707213.htm
or this for 24K US

I don't think you can compare prices in different markets easily, too many variables.

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I look every now and then to make myself feel better about what I have spent on mine!
You dont seem to get much in NZ for under $10k now, maybe an 850 that has had the engine re-stamped with 750 numbers!!
http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.aspx?id=894478440

Hi Cheesy.
I'd be really worried when he says:
"...As from what I can see it is an unmolested original bike (apart from the K&N air filter). Head stamp # 850 F103301, Engine # 20M3S/150111 (no Frame Tag), Barrell # 063850. So is an 850! As for history of this bike It's a little vague, but I do know some of it..."
Ta.

I usually scour the local craigslist for norton stuff. A while back I noticed that there was a local guy who was looking to buy commandos in "any condtion". At the time I was a little despondent about not having an inside place to store my bike over the winter, and was thinking about selling it. I called the commando "collector" to see what his valuation would be for my bike.

I discribe my bike as a mechanically good rider. It's got a complete crankcase rebuild with all the upgrades, back then it had no gearbox rebuild, but the gearbox worked flawlessly anyway . The bike has a mediochre repaint to all black because I hated the original yellow. All in all, It needed some rechroming in spots and a quality paint job to be nice average restoration. It's got 20,000 original miles on it.

Anyway, the guy asked me what I wanted for the bike and I told him $5,000. and he said that he would never pay anywhere near that much for the bike I discribed, so instead of selling the bike, I cleared out the guest room in my house for the bike to live in when it's winter time, and guests can either sleep on the couch or go to a motel.... because it didn't pay for me to drop all the money into the bike to rebuild it, and just to let it rust out on the porch in the winter...

....But to make a long story short, I was a bit stunned to think that a bike that had over $3,000. in parts and machine work in it, was valued as low as $5,000.... so I am going to keep it. I actually have a nephew who is going to school for automotive technology and I plan to keep the bike for him to inherit as a relic of the old technology...

I could be wrong here but I think that engine number should have a timed breather off the end of the camshaft not down infront of the gearbox, it looks like a later set of cases atleast, the frame number looks more like a 73 850 though. cheesy2 (146 146 positive feedback) 10:47 pm, Sat 30 May

Answer: I'm not interested in everyone's two cents worth on what they think this bike is, in their opinion from the photos in this auction. View it and come up with you own conclusions, or bid on it, or just keep them to your self. getting fed up with armchair experts with such varied views. It is a 850 Norton Commando, It is very tidy and it is a good running original styled complete bike, It is valued at atleast 10K. Just Bid or bugger off

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Does not appreciate Cheesy2's comments :lol:
You really do need to do your research prior to bidding to avoid disappointment.

Hi.
Re: http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.aspx?id=894478440

$10,000 - $12,000? The RH muffler is falling off, the header rosettes have been tightened using stilsons?, bike is covered in rust re rims, disc, forks, etc. Good luck with that. I thought bikes in Oz were getting pricey! Oh, and zero sales charm to boot.
Ta.
Chrome timing cover looks out of place. Looks to be 850 RH case by the breather placement and 850 top end so the only part changed is the LH case (the one with the numbers) for a modified 750 version. Feeling the heat on this one.