Sustainability

I read with interest that many owners of new Norton's experience problems, but it is good to hear that the factory responds well. There are stories on here from people having new frames, rebuilt engines, etc, etc.

What comes to my mind though, is how can Norton carry on like this?!

I know many people consider new Norton's to be expensive, but actually, when you consider the very low volume and hand built nature of the bikes, they aren't really that expensive, as anyone who has ever built any decent bike from scratch will admit... if they're being honest with themselves!

Norton is not a multi national group of companies who make a few motorbikes as a side line. This is all they do. How can they sustain such high warranty costs as they must be current amassing ?!?

era easy, they run in the red for a while...

Fast Eddie said:

I read with interest that many owners of new Norton's experience problems, but it is good to hear that the factory responds well. There are stories on here from people having new frames, rebuilt engines, etc, etc.

What comes to my mind though, is how can Norton carry on like this?!

How can they sustain such high warranty costs as they must be current amassing ?!?

Click to expand...

How are we supposed to know? :?

Go to the Triumph, Ducati, HD, Indian, MV Augusta or any other forum, take your pick! You will see far more negative posts then positive. If your product is perfect you tell nobody , if your product has an issue you tell everybody and go to the internet for help. Its the 21st Century way!

And as we all know bikes aren't the only things being sold by Garner out of Donnington Castle!

When I was on a factory tour in July, I spent some time talking to the engineer who deals with the warranty repairs and remappinig, exhausts etc at the factory. I cant remember his name, I think he was French, very nice guy and very knowledgeable.

At the time I was there, there were 8 bikes outside his little workshop off on its own next to the sales office where he works. 6 of them were for service, remapping etc and 2 were for warranty work.

The engineer said he is almost exclusively working on servicing, remapping and exhausts, warranty work is a very small part of his time. I don't think he can do frame changes etc, but I cant see any reason he cant do everything else on the warranty side. This means that the 5 build bays are always on line building new bikes and I cant see warranty issues causing a problem with downtime or extra costs. I own several other bikes, if you want to talk warranty issues try the new BMW range or the Triumph 1200 explorer (Ive got an Explorer). I don't see warranty issues as a problem. The bikes are bespoke built and if you cant see what issues that's likely to bring, go buy a Honda, youll be happier. Im just glad I managed to buy a Norton...

BPHorse guy has it correct I believe. It seems the current fashion is to post about a problem with the 961 on the internet. The vast majority of bike owners stay silent or do something radical, like ring their dealer and have the problem fixed with little or no fuss.... This forum seems to delight in raising any possible negative issue. Ive just joined my local NOC and the 4 961 owners there are over the moon with their bikes and the service from the factory.

Ive only been on this forum for a week, but it seems a very negative place compared with most bike forums, which tend to be chirpy and funny....

Dozer said:

When I was on a factory tour in July, I spent some time talking to the engineer who deals with the warranty repairs and remappinig, exhausts etc at the factory. I cant remember his name, I think he was French, very nice guy and very knowledgeable.

At the time I was there, there were 8 bikes outside his little workshop off on its own next to the sales office where he works. 6 of them were for service, remapping etc and 2 were for warranty work.

The engineer said he is almost exclusively working on servicing, remapping and exhausts, warranty work is a very small part of his time. I don't think he can do frame changes etc, but I cant see any reason he cant do everything else on the warranty side. This means that the 5 build bays are always on line building new bikes and I cant see warranty issues causing a problem with downtime or extra costs. I own several other bikes, if you want to talk warranty issues try the new BMW range or the Triumph 1200 explorer (Ive got an Explorer). I don't see warranty issues as a problem. The bikes are bespoke built and if you cant see what issues that's likely to bring, go buy a Honda, youll be happier. Im just glad I managed to buy a Norton...

BPHorse guy has it correct I believe. It seems the current fashion is to post about a problem with the 961 on the internet. The vast majority of bike owners stay silent or do something radical, like ring their dealer and have the problem fixed with little or no fuss.... This forum seems to delight in raising any possible negative issue. Ive just joined my local NOC and the 4 961 owners there are over the moon with their bikes and the service from the factory.

Ive only been on this forum for a week, but it seems a very negative place compared with most bike forums, which tend to be chirpy and funny....

Click to expand...

You may well be right there Dozer. I for one, have asked several times for new owners to give feedback on here as they accrue mileage, specifically hoping to read such positve info. Most (not all) new owners tend to post pics of their new bike, saying how lovely it is, and then post very little positive stuff afterwards. So, as you say, the majority of postings tend to be negative, and perhaps this 'skews the trend' unfairly.
Perhaps you could start a trend and keep us posted as to how well your bike performs, good runs you've had on it etc?
The negative posts (not just on here) seem to suggest that for every bike sold, Norton spend a lot on warranty claims. I kid you not, that I would be delighted for this to be proven totally wrong.
The reason for my interest is a latent interest in owning one. I was very keen once, but the internet negativity put me off and I doubt I'm the only one.

I love my 961. It was the first one registered in the benelux and in the (almost) 3 years of owning it, i enjoyed most of the rides on it. It does have an attitude... kind of like a woman. Sometimes they can be stupid without a reason, but it doesn't keep you from riding it with pleasure. I can talk hours about my positive ride to work, the lovely sound, the ability to grind the exhaust in the corners etc...

But do not try to convince me Norton is a positive story. It isn't. At least mine isn't. The bike has too many build quality issues you can't justify. Even on a bespoke build. That can also be said about Norton. Yes, they try. And they are friendly, but please... My bike spent 6 months at the dealer last year, waiting for parts to solve a warranty issue. I had to wait more than 6 weeks this summer for a front sprocket to arrive. I can't tell you much about the nice rides in the lovely weather. Because i was scared my chain and totally worn out cush drive (at 10.000 miles) would damage my rear hub and/or engine case. If you look at every case as an isolated case, i think you are right Dozer. It would be just a 'bashing Norton'-Thing.
When i overreact on a small problem i have with the bike now... it is because of what i experienced in the past 5 years and because of what i see from other owners face to face. You are right... they say they are perfectly happy. Talk a little longer and they start to ask. Do you have an idle that is to high and does it stall at traffic lights? Do you have the same oil leak? Do your gauges reset in the rain?...

Don't get me wrong here. My bike is running good lately. Room for improvement, but okay. I nearly lost my patience along the way. Glad now i didn't

Eddie, Negativety is rampant here, much by non owners, most suspect jealousy because the bike is too expensive for many. I too track issues, most are from 2010, 2011. Normally a product gets more reliable with maturity, and Nortons CS has been great with me and 5 other owners I am in contact with. If you want one I say go for it just remember it is an exotic. If you don't want that get a Honda.

i think if i had a bike down for 6 months waiting for parts and a proper fix i would have shoved it up van epps ass. or stewart’s ass if he was on this side of the pond. seriously ? no excuse for that. after all they keep telling us they have all the bugs worked out now !! lol and we have a new extend warranty.. shame we need to use it....

Dimitri, where abouts in the world do you live? I have the advantage of living in the UK, about 100 miles from Donington. This obviously gives UK riders a more pleasant experience if they have a problem with their 961. My local dealer, Krazy Horse, is only 25 miles away, even better. I cant imagine a UK bike being off the road for 6 months, I would definitely kick off about that....

One recurring item Ive picked up from this forum is, in my own opinion the overseas bikes, ie non UK, aren't backed up as well as the UK ones? Would you agree? For a small outfit, the UK operation seems pretty sorted to me?

However, I also own a Moto Guzzi. Do you want to talk about dealer back up for an Italian bike? Lol. 6 months for a lambda sensor? 3 months for a fuel pump? My local MG dealer doesn't actually stock moto guzzis, but can show you a nice video! Norton are a shining light of customer service compared with the Italians, in UK anyway. In spite of this, I knew this about Guzzis but have still owned several, and will continue to own MG's. That to my mind is one of the downfalls of owning exotica (or Moto Guzzis/Ducatis/Laverdas). However I have other bikes in my garage, one of which is a 2013 Triumph Explorer which is my 'go to' bike for everyday use, as its 100% reliable and I don't mind covering it in UK road crap.

Would I have a 961 as an everyday bike with nothing else in the garage? No.... So I have other bikes. I intend my 961 to be my guilty pleasure and only brought out on Sunny Sundays, never to see rain and be passed on to my son when I go through the pearly gates (hopefully at 160mph, backwards, on fire at age 86 with a 30 year old pole dancer on the pillion). I expect it to have issues, I also expect Norton to fix those issues and leave me to ride the wheels off it as often as I can until my 48 yr old knees give up.

I will update on this forum on a regular basis, as a 2014 owner, without some of the negativity ive noted on some other threads, especially around the first bikes, 2010-2011, Ill tell it as it is, sitting in the seat.

I live in Belgium, and wa actually have a very helpful importer/dealer for Norton. But parts distribution from the uk is not optimal.

My bike was delivered at the time Norton was under fire for getting deposits, but not delivering bikes. Mine was one of these... paid and had to wait another 8 months to have it delivered. But that's okay.
Just like you, i hope to pass the bike over to my son once. My bike was actually registered the same week my son was born. But it is definitely not a sunshine bike. I don't earn enough to justify an expensive bike like that as a second bike. (actually, it's my n°8 bike, but i call it my first to please mrs dimitri ;-))

Had a bit of bad luck this evening though. An unavoidable oil track in a corner made me drop the bike. Some very expensive bad luck. Hopefully the parts i need will take not too long to arrive.

Ouch, sorry to hear that Dimitri...

Spoke to my dealer today, on a gorgeous sunny day, about the detente spring and gaskets that were shipped 3 weeks ago by Norton and have not arrived yet. How can people not be negative when they drop 22 grand and get held hostage. I seriously pissed off. Also, a New Jersey dealership went belly up and my dealer has 2 of their 961 owners. Now lets do the math....10 bikes in the first shipment and 3 already sitting in a shop waiting for repairs. That's 30% the I KNOW OF. I don't really care that the bike had a glitch. That happens with new items. What I'm pissed about is Nortons slow ass way of sending out parts. All I get from the dealer is "I beg them...I don't know what to tell you". Hasn't Stuart Garner ever heard of Fed Ex and tracking numbers? This is really a load of bull. I don't think I want the bike anymore. It was mentioned here that BMW and Harley has their share of negativity too, however, BMW has a huge warehouse full of parts in Pennsylvania and their are Harley dealers like every 10 miles in NY. We can't really compare that to a factory in Donnington that doesn't give a damn about their sold bikes in the US now, could we? I don't think Norton is going to last in the states if this keeps up. Guess its going to up a lot in value when they fold. Thanks for letting me rant. I'm sorry you had to wait so long, Dimitri, but I believe every word of it. Oh....and other than that, its still the coolest damned bike on the planet.

Britfan, do you want me to try and get them here and fedex them over to you?

FastEddie, that is a very generous off and I think you for it. I'll give it a little more gut wrenching time and hope it wouldn't come to that. It is after all, warranty work. But again, thanks. I know I'm sounding like a whiner, but its a beautiful 4 day weekend for me and all the fellas are going for a nice mountain road ride. I'll try to keep my emotions at bay. :x :mrgreen:

sounds like you have tranny problems ?? it is a baker gearbox. might it b worth it to order direct from baker and save a shit load of time. just asking. does anybody know what model bike the clutch is off of ?? GSXR or TL ??

I've had a few problems with mine over the three and half years I've had it but Norton have always sorted it within a week including collecting and delivering. However I have to say it's the worst gearbox I have had on any bike and although the clutch works OK it's more noisy than my old Ducati. I still love my 961 especially the looks but when compared to my other modern bikes it feels very agricultural, the vibration feels worse than my old MK 3 850 Commando until I get it above 4,000 revs. My MK3 is also mechanically quieter which is really noticeable at tickover, the 961 is very noisy and lots have remarked on it, it's better with the loud sport silencers and de-cat exhaust as it drowns some of it out!

My gearbox actually is not too bad. Except from the occasional false neutrals. I do have to shift it firm, with a good push (or pull). Every time i have driven another bike for a few days, i have to get used to the 961 gearbox. After the first days, it shifts very good and smooth. I have driven worse gearboxes. Mine, on the other hand has a bad clutch. Except from the noise you are describing, it is hard to pull away smooth. I also have the occasional clutch shock you can have on older bikes when the basket is worn. But those are part of its personality! Like you, i love the bike, despite it's imperfections.

shitty shifting gearbox, rattely clutch, need remapping before it is out the door, jeez, have to rethink my pending purchase. anybody else have feedback on this bike ??

The gearbox is an odd one, sometimes I'll not miss a gear all evening but on another night I'll find more neutrals than Switzerland in WWII.
I too love my 961, there are more negatives than positives to the bike but the positives are absolutely huge :lol: