Sump Plug Removal

. Stilson, chisel, etc will ensure another OP outlay because the part will definitely not survive more of the same abuse

I don't think Aleks is concerned with survivability of the part, .... like a bad tooth, he just wants it out!
IMO, I would not want to put that plug back in no way, no how.

Slick

texasSlick said:

. Stilson, chisel, etc will ensure another OP outlay because the part will definitely not survive more of the same abuse

I don't think Aleks is concerned with survivability of the part, .... like a bad tooth, he just wants it out!
IMO, I would not want to put that plug back in no way, no how.

Slick

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Hi Slick.
I acknowledge the mutually supportive philosophies of 'at any cost' and 'buy new stuff' but prefer to offer an alternate path of action should the assumption that the original poster also subscibes to such philosophies not be correct.
Ta.

Mine had razor burrs from knuckle draggers using pipe wrenches.... Six point got it off, filed to deburr, back in service. No heavy lifting... :lol:

texasSlick said:

. Stilson, chisel, etc will ensure another OP outlay because the part will definitely not survive more of the same abuse

I don't think Aleks is concerned with survivability of the part, .... like a bad tooth, he just wants it out!
IMO, I would not want to put that plug back in no way, no how.

Slick

Click to expand...

We're on the same page. In planning on doing a frame-off restore, I can't possibly imagine the circumstances under which I'd put this particular "bad tooth" back into a future, sparkling mouth. :lol: Just to clarify, I feel no sentimental attachment to the current sump plug.

elefantrider said:

I use this.
It is 1/2 drive which is hard to find in this large size.
Most in this size are 3/4 drive.

Works great. Have a one left over if anyone wants it, I will list in the FS section. Brand new. US-made.

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So is this a 1-7/16"? I'm afraid my particular abomination of the sump plug just can't accommodate it. I'm reluctant to file away, but may have to resort to that, as 1-7/16 does seem like the right size (1-1/2 has far too much play to do any good). I'm also considering of going the route of feeding the tube of an oil extractor and pumping as much as I can before carrying on and then leaving this for a machinist or welder. As much as I want to extract it, I'd also like to keep the cases intact.

Thank you all for the feedback - much appreciated!

Sorry, I promised to measure it but got called out for a trip. Surely there's someone who can apply calipers or fit a socket to their undamaged one for a measurement.

I'm confused. I went out to measure my very grungy shed fresh '72 750 as I'm still learning what proper tools I'll need on hand to work on this bike. The only thing I found on the bottom of the engine cases, which has to be the sump drain plug, has a hex that measures approx. .61" across the flats. I have an old set of Whitworth tools, and the "5/16" socket fits on the hex like what I would call correctly. Are there different sized drain plugs? Am I even looking at the sump drain plug?
Bill

72's have more normal lawnmower sized drain plug that is both kind of hard to reach and likely especially tight too.

Thanks Hobot. That leads to one more question - are there any good 6-point Whitworth socket sets out there? Or any good 6-point Whitworth box end combination wrench sets? I haven't found any yet. Sorry, I didn't mean to highjack this thread.
Bill

@Aleks

If the Stillson does not extract the bad tooth, you might consider drilling/Dremel ing two notches either side of the plug .... think speedo drive lock ring or the clutch operator lock ring. Then make up a tool with two prongs to engage the notches. If you plan carefully, you might end up with a tool for your speedo drive or clutch operator.

I think Old Brits has the clutch tool on their website. I made one for the speedo drive. If you need the dimensions, PM me.

Slick

Fast Eddie said:

The heat will help break the bond and the hex bar will alloy you to get a socket on it.

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+1, except the piece of hex can be as simple (and cheap) as a cast-away lug nut found at the local salvage yard, or from your least favorite relative's car. Since the plug is history anyway, have someone who's fluent with a wire-feed (MIG) welder stick the nut to the plug. As the whole mess cools back down, there's a very good chance that the weld will shrink the plug enough to help break its grip. It's then just a matter of putting a breaker bar and socket to the nut you just welded on.

Afterwards, use either a purpose-built wrench, or a socket that's had the chamfers ground flat, as like this item:


Welcome to the forum!

Nathan

OHHHHhhh so its a rounded off especially tight bottom sucker. Heat snot out of it to semi-cook to coke the semi glue like sealant likely used, then when semi-cooled enough JBW a socket from pawn shop on and then wait over night for breaker bar screw out like a real mechanic vs blacksmith curdeness. Grease/oil bolt surround, wipe off semi well, tape off surround, tape off socket drive hole, semi fill socket to moosh onto plug, wipe off most excess somehow support socket up to plug, blocks+ cushion. If this fails with socket just cracking off then take to welder to grind a bare spot, tack on a big stick rod held in contact to electro heat the plug to swell it against the alu, then wait about 30 sec for plug to contract as alu swells off of it absorbing the shed heat. Metal does not instantly expand when heated. Then with glove fingers or piliers just easy screw right out. Get to meet and make friends with capable and often interested shop runners. Instead of a day at the beach its a date to the vet with your new pet.

The most common size for the sump filter hex is 7/8'' Whit, 1 1/2'' AF. There is a smaller hex on some of the sump filters that are fitted, but I can not remember what it is. If it is badly chewed, then stilsons as advised with some heat if needed. I would not consider using a chisel anywhere near ally cases - a slip could be costly.

I dislike pipe wrenchesr, especially if having to push turds and roots out the way to reach the pipe which makes me question the advice of Stilton as being able to get a grip on the plug w/o engine out. Has anyone actually tried to get a pipe wrench on a 72 size plug engine installed?

On something that buggered up that needs to be replaced, I've had success with a vice-grip type tool like this: http://www.irwin.com/tools/locking-tools/the-original-locking-wrenches If it's locked on good, you can put a piece of pipe on the handle for a little extra leverage. Also, I would take up all the slack and give it a quick jolt of torque, rather than slowly increasing the torque on it.
Bill

First, welcome to access Norton. The collective wisdom of these guys is great.
Looking at Bacons Norton Twins book it looks like your bike is a 71. Those frames weren't stamped and only used the ID plate. You can buy those on line and stamp your numbers into it. Don't forget to get the rivets.
I use a 1-1/2" Snap on socket and have for 40years. If you chose to go hammer and chisel route, take care you don't want to make a bad situation worse.
I put a small refrigerator magnet into the sump plug next to the gauze filter to aid in catching any metal debris. Works just fine and every time I change oil I take it out and clean it.

Cheers
John in Texas

Hi Alecks.
There appears to be some bubbled goo sealant around the joint of the plug and cases in the photos. As I infer from hobot's post , using heat to soften the goo will make extraction easier when you find the correct tool. Perhaps use a bonded sealing washer on reassembly instead of goo.
What will you do with the less-than-pristine parts that you replace? I envisage my perfectly functional second bike built from the less aesthetically pleasing parts that others discard. Hint: Your case mount visible in the photo is also broken and perhaps rather unsightly.
Ta.

I like like the big vices grips smacked with a big hammer efficient satisfaction even if still have to drill out. Oh yeah welcome to the start of more to come of never ending processing, some more fun than others of course.
My mentors tricked me into it by saying a Commando is as simple as a lawnmower so what could go wrong. They also implied there was a mythical state of a fully fettered one to ride and by golly they were right there, for as long as it might last.

I had to use a large adjustable wrench on mine. I have also seen techs use a bit of valve grinding compound on stuck bolts to give it some bite.
Good luck!

Ya know in movies when eyes turn some non human color ya know its bad news from there on, so if this plug is buggered what about the rest of it? An itsy bitsy little plug can be a mechanical manhood tester to work out. I almost never drain the sump in my Combats as only so many uses of the same plug and same alu threads before renewal time and who would ride off w/o it dam tighter than actually needs to be. Combats are not vunerable to normal wet sump anything so no good reason to keep traumatizing this under built plug. If engine good to go otherwise I can think of no good reason to traumatize its next sealing or yourself. Could be a good reason its glued in after the mangling torque applied one last sucessful time. If threads damaged a museum shop or CNW would pull engine to do it really by the book right again. What remains in sump after a run to fill oil tank would be less than whats left in TS case - which if prime and proper - Norton said should be opened to check every 5000 m which is about right for an oil change - if ya can believe comnoz schedule. Just another reason I consider these ole bombs Cream of Commando Crop. Ride or Wrench or Ride to Wrench or Wrench to Ride...

Am not sure what they are called but in the UK you can buy sockets specifically for undoing chewed up bolts.. I have had two different size
plugs on my Commando.. The original was 7/8 or 3/4 Whitworth. I bought a beautiful Britool ring spanner of those sizes for 50p from a junk shop. I replaced the plugwith one that has a magnetic drain inner bolt but. that is AF and my prize bargain spanner no longer fits. you could try filing servicable flats and then squeezing a box spanner to fit across two of them. Easier to hold it on... Do try plus gas or something similar first it will help break a corrosion bond between alloy and steel
If the cases are out of the frames then surely just drill a hole through the plug and use a suitable Left hand thread ease it out..