Sump Plug Removal

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Good evening one and all!

This is my first post, so I suppose the decent thing to do would be to introduce myself prior to tapping your collective minds for knowledge and information. My name is Aleks, I'm living in Canada and according to my girlfriend, my romantic notions of getting my "pieces-in-boxes" 1972 Commando 750 running someday are, if not somewhat entertaining, then outright folly. However, I refuse to lay down. So does the Commando, apparently (see images).

Onto the meat of the matter then. Attached you will find images of my first roadblock. The infamous sump plug/monster nut. Unfortunately, its non-uniform shape makes it difficult to measure. The closest size seems to be either 37mm or 38mm. I have a SAE 3/4" drive 1-1/2" shallow socket which seems to be too big (?!) - there is far too much play, whether owing to the deformed nut or something else, I'm not sure. I sourced a poorly crafted specialty tool for removing the plug off eBay, but it too seems to have far too much play to do any good. Likewise, given how stuck the nut is, I'd need to weld the tool onto a pipe of some sort, to get any real torque.

I was just wondering, based on what you're seeing here, what the best plan of attack would be? The chisel-like mark you see was made by a previous loving owner(s), who may have fastened it, in what seems to be a "once and for all" sort of manner. I've been applying some deep penetrating lube and will hit it with a heat gun once I've sourced the appropriate socket. If a breaker bar doesn't do it, would you advise me against trying an impact wrench? What about tapping it? Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time finding images of the plugs, but instinct tells me, they'd be too shallow to tap. What are my options here?

Worth noting (maybe): I may have a franken-Commando on my hands. It's registered as a '72, and the case is stamped 20M3S/142663, yet on another part of the bottom-end I also saw 206429. The frame, sadly, did not have the little riveted plate denoting the frame number.

Thank you all in advance for taking the time to read my mini-rant - any pointers or advice you can share will be a huge bonus.

Sincerely,

Aleks

Not wanting to annihilate anyone's computer or eat all your bandwidth, here are the links to the images, rather than embedded, low-res versions. Please forgive my ignorance, if this is not the preferred method of sharing pics.

http://i.imgur.com/gypgn7x.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8vOEI61.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hhHzVZ7.jpg
 
It is pretty boched up, if you can get a plummers wench (stillsons) on it, it might grip it enough to turn it, if not try with a cole chiesil as that looks like what has been used before, snapon sockets are reknown to be able to grip boched up nuts better, the PO must have been a bit of a butcher on it and to not replace it when it got that bad, you can replace that pug that has a smaller drain bolt in the middle, but you have to get that one out first.

Ashley
 
That PO was a bigger hack than I am,and that says something!

http://www.oldbritts.com/11_067281.html

Sump Plug Removal
 
I have no answer to your question about putting a magnet in the sump plug area

but I have drilled a small hole at the end of my main oil tank dip stick through which I have safety wire going through and then a couple of inches lower from which is secured a couple of large magnets that seem to do a good job catching blacker, slimy looking stuff and I presume very fine metal as the oil circulates throughout the oil tank
 
Welcome, Aleks,

Aleks said:
Onto the meat of the matter then. Attached you will find images of my first roadblock. The infamous sump plug/monster nut. Unfortunately, its non-uniform shape makes it difficult to measure. The closest size seems to be either 37mm or 38mm. I have a SAE 3/4" drive 1-1/2" shallow socket which seems to be too big (?!) - there is far too much play, whether owing to the deformed nut or something else, I'm not sure. I sourced a poorly crafted specialty tool for removing the plug off eBay, but it too seems to have far too much play to do any good. Likewise, given how stuck the nut is, I'd need to weld the tool onto a pipe of some sort, to get any real torque.

The filter hexagon has certainly been well-butchered so you will probably have to loosen it by unconventional means (OK, hammer and chisel etc.?).
Here's an earlier thread about sump plug hexagon sizes: large-drain-plug-size-t13875.html


Aleks said:
Worth noting (maybe): I may have a franken-Commando on my hands. It's registered as a '72, and the case is stamped 20M3S/142663, yet on another part of the bottom-end I also saw 206429. The frame, sadly, did not have the little riveted plate denoting the frame number.

Yes, presumably the drive side case is the one stamped 20M3S/142663 (early 1971) as the '72-'73 series 750 cases (200000+) did not have the sump filter!
 
Hi Aleks.
There looks to be enough hexagon left to get a ringy or socket to grip.
To keep the tool engaged, perhaps: Wedge it on with a block of wood (using the bike's weight to your advantage) then rap the tool shaft with a mallet to loosen the plug.
Ta.
 
The hex is still there albeit butchered. I seem to remember it's an 1 7/16"; I'll check it in the morning if no one confirms it tonight. I think it will come right off with a 6 point socket.
 
ashman said:
It is pretty boched up, if you can get a plummers wench (stillsons) on it, it might grip it enough to turn it, if not try with a cole chiesil as that looks like what has been used before, snapon sockets are reknown to be able to grip boched up nuts better, the PO must have been a bit of a butcher on it and to not replace it when it got that bad, you can replace that pug that has a smaller drain bolt in the middle, but you have to get that one out first.

Ashley


plus 1 on the Stillsons used carefully. [ Monkey wrench in US talk. } Don't use a cold chisel or you will fcuk something.
 
That sump plug looks like it belongs on something fred flintstone would ride....
 
plus 1 on the Stillsons used carefully. [ Monkey wrench in US talk. } Don't use a cold chisel or you will fcuk something.[/quote]

If you use a small cold chisel and just lightly tap it and it should come undone, do not bash the shit out of it or you will break something, but give the stillsons a go as they grip it tightly and won't slip but thats if you can get them in there, you be surprise what stillson can grip on even when there is not much to grab, I have a few sets in my workshop from small ones to extra large.

Ashley
 
Thank you all so much for the wonderful comments - I'll give the various suggestions a go and will report back!
 
If you have a good welder nearby, how about welding a short stub of alloy hex bar to it?

The heat will help break the bond and the hex bar will alloy you to get a socket on it.

With care and some perseverance I reckon it could be done in situ.
 
Fast Eddie said:
If you have a good welder nearby, how about welding a short stub of alloy hex bar to it?

The heat will help break the bond and the hex bar will alloy you to get a socket on it.

With care and some perseverance I reckon it could be done in situ.

It should be made of steel shouldn't it so any welder should do the trick. That's how I removed the brake caliper blanking plate. Be careful about heat an oil but it should not be much of an issue as weld will only take few seconds. Just have an extinguisher on standby and disconnect the battery.
 
toppy said:
Fast Eddie said:
If you have a good welder nearby, how about welding a short stub of alloy hex bar to it?

The heat will help break the bond and the hex bar will alloy you to get a socket on it.

With care and some perseverance I reckon it could be done in situ.

It should be made of steel shouldn't it so any welder should do the trick. That's how I removed the brake caliper blanking plate. Be careful about heat an oil but it should not be much of an issue as weld will only take few seconds. Just have an extinguisher on standby and disconnect the battery.

Indeed, if steel, even easier. I assumed it was alloy the way it looks chewed up in the pics !
 
Once you get the correct 6-point socket, grind the chamfer off the face. Enjoy. :mrgreen:
 
Sump Plug Removal



I use this.
It is 1/2 drive which is hard to find in this large size.
Most in this size are 3/4 drive.

Works great. Have a one left over if anyone wants it, I will list in the FS section. Brand new. US-made.
 
+ 1 on the Stillson wrench.

Isn't the plug made of brass? If so, brazing a rod might work, but I would apply heat to the cases while keeping the heat away from the plug ... ie expand the cases, not the plug.

Slick
 
Stilsons...? Cold chisels...? Seriously?
Have another look at the OP images. His dilemna is the result of the application of Stilson, cold chisel and the like.
Ta.
 
needing said:
Stilsons...? Cold chisels...? Seriously?
Have another look at the OP images. His dilemna is the result of the application of Stilson, cold chisel and the like.
Ta.


Yes and done by the PO (bucther) if the right tools were used it would have never happened, so now this owner has to get it undone, it can't get any worst and it will have to be rplaced with a new one and of course using the right tools so it will never happen again, I still have my orginal plug sinse new because I use the right tools.

Ashley
 
ashman said:
needing said:
Stilsons...? Cold chisels...? Seriously?
Have another look at the OP images. His dilemna is the result of the application of Stilson, cold chisel and the like.
Ta.


Yes and done by the PO (bucther) if the right tools were used it would have never happened, so now this owner has to get it undone, it can't get any worst and it will have to be rplaced with a new one and of course using the right tools so it will never happen again, I still have my orginal plug sinse new because I use the right tools.

Ashley
Hi Ashley.
I disagree that the current damage would require part replacement with new product. With that much 'meat' left on the hex I suggest that the use of 'right' tools (ala concours) from now on will see it last for many more years. Stilson, chisel, etc will ensure another OP outlay because the part will definitely not survive more of the same abuse as advocated in this thread.
Ta.
 
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