Still considering a 961

cNwRestomod said:
Here's my two cents on the Norton 961 and bear in mind that I own a 1974 Norton 850 and love the bike and appreciate its heritage.

The Norton 961 is junk and a disservice to the Norton name. First, compare a Triumph Thruxton to the Norton 961; the Thruxton is twice the bike that the 961 will ever be at half the cost. Another comparison and hold onto your helmets; compare the 961 with the KTM 1190 Adventure. The KTM has 158 hp to the rear wheel, ride by wire, GPS, ABS, every high technological piece of equipment that can be incorporated into a modern bike. Cost? The KTM is half the cost of the 961 and is reputedly the best bike ever built. Read the reviews on the KTM. The Norton dealer in Vancouver, B.C. just went out of business selling Norton 961's. He has one left and won't let you test ride the bike. They want 26K CDN plus taxes for the bike and you can't test ride it? Are you kidding me? The Norton 961 should be selling for 10K and not 26K.

Don't get me wrong; I love old vintage Nortons and I am hopeful that the new Nortons will be redesigned such that they become a modern day classic. As it stands now, the competition that they are up against in the marketplace dooms them to failure.

Any motorcyclist enamored by the plethora of control systems (rider aids) incorporated into modern bikes should, hold onto your helmets; absolutely buy one of those modern machines. Then henceforth stop considering the 961 altogether. Because the 961 is “junk and a disservice to the Norton name”.
This is obviously very disturbing you, even though you apparently have never ridden a 961.
Buy and ride what makes you feel happy and fulfilled, instead of ranting against the 961.

Wishing you better mental health. :roll:
 
Actually, not ranting against the 961 as it is an inanimate object. But I do rant against the incompetent engineers that would manufacture such poor quality and poorly designed machine in this day and age. And, as far as the KTM 1190 or the Ducati Hyperstrada or any of the high tech bikes at half the cost with three times the horsepower, consider that all of that technology can be turned off with the flick of your thumb and now your riding a 'naked bike', sans electronic technology. Given 160 hp, there are few of us that can manage that kind of unbridled power without electronic aids and stay out of trouble. Consider as well that ABS, the basic of all e-tech stuff, is pretty much standard fare these days for good reason; it makes the driver safer. So does the advanced technology. What I am getting at is comparing the cost of the 961 to the best bikes on the market at half the price does not make sense and Norton will not survive selling bikes at twice the price, that no one can test ride, that have such poor performance relative to its competitors, etc. One must remember the demographics of new bike riders and purchasers. I was reminded of that the other day at a gas station when I was topping up the tank. Teenage boys were nearby the gas station and they all converged on the Ducati and the KTM and totally ignored my ride. On the other hand, we stopped later that day for lunch and when we came outside, there were 5 or 6 old geysers admiring my bike while they totally ignored all of the new stuff in the parking lot. I'd say that tells a lot about where the emerging market is going and where Norton may well find itself; a dodo bird.
I must say that anyone who rides and whatever they ride is alright with me. I acknowledge (i.e., wave) all passing riders, whether they be on a 1954 Cushman, a 1963 Honda Cub or a 2016 Ducati Monster. If you own a 961 and I am assuming you do on this forum, that's great. I just wish that Norton would produce a better product with a more reasonable price point and with better marketing in order to compete successfully. The way it has been going, I'd be generous to give them another decade before they close the doors.
 
cNwRestomod said:
I was comparing a new 961 to other new bikes, whether it be a Thruxton or a KTM 1190. Cost wise, the 961 is not good value for the money. Looks wise, which is what you may be referring to, the old vintage Norton Commandos takes 1st place against any other bike built, bar none, new or old. The 961 can't be compared to an old vintage Norton technology-wise but should be capable of being compared between any modern day bike at half its cost (e.g., the KTM). IMHO, the 961 is a slow bike by modern day standards with a mish mash of old and new technology and doesn't recreate the look of a vintage bike. Anyone out there can tell you that upgrading a vintage bike to make it more reliable will cost money; pretty much the same as remodelling a kitchen vs. building a new one from scratch. To each their own. I only hope that with the new infusion of money into the company (unless Brexit gets in the way of that), that Norton produce a bike worthy of the name. To date, they haven't done that.

I'm sorry but if you weren't so funny you'd be tragic....

Beauty by the way is very much in the eye of the beholder. I for example have zero interest in the 'classic Commando'. Most people share that opinion otherwise manufacturers would still be making them! Times change, you see it in clothing, cars, bikes etc so please don't be so one eyed.

Don't roll out the value for money line either, no one buys a Norton or retro Triumph for that matter because it represents value for money. You buy it because you prefer one over the other and can afford it. In the case of the Norton you're paying extra because it's a hand built motorcycle manufactured in tiny volumes. Or should they sell them at a loss because you don't think they represent value for money? Are there issues - yes and for the most part they have or are in the process being addressed. While you may fondly look back with your rose tinted glasses at 'classic' bikes - do remember they were riddled with faults, many of which were never resolved and whole industries and indeed communities such as this website have sprung up to address them! The British have a long and well understood history of using the customer as the tester, it'd be more surprising if there were no issues!

By the sounds of it the only bike Norton could produce worthy of the name IN YOUR OPINION would be some dated looking thing from the 70's that no one would buy under the age of 70. No offense intended to owners of classic bikes btw - I wrote that line with the same one eyed mentality as you!

We're all on this forum because of our love of Norton, be it the classic or the modern expression.... I don't really understand why you thought we might appreciate your opinion on the 961 forum? Did you think we would all suddenly realise how stupid we've been and thank you profusely for taking the wool off our eyes? You are of course entitled to your opinion but don't be surprised if others don't share it!
 
cNwRestomod said:
Actually, not ranting against the 961 as it is an inanimate object. But I do rant against the incompetent engineers that would manufacture such poor quality and poorly designed machine in this day and age. And, as far as the KTM 1190 or the Ducati Hyperstrada or any of the high tech bikes at half the cost with three times the horsepower, consider that all of that technology can be turned off with the flick of your thumb and now your riding a 'naked bike', sans electronic technology. Given 160 hp, there are few of us that can manage that kind of unbridled power without electronic aids and stay out of trouble. Consider as well that ABS, the basic of all e-tech stuff, is pretty much standard fare these days for good reason; it makes the driver safer. So does the advanced technology. What I am getting at is comparing the cost of the 961 to the best bikes on the market at half the price does not make sense and Norton will not survive selling bikes at twice the price, that no one can test ride, that have such poor performance relative to its competitors, etc. One must remember the demographics of new bike riders and purchasers. I was reminded of that the other day at a gas station when I was topping up the tank. Teenage boys were nearby the gas station and they all converged on the Ducati and the KTM and totally ignored my ride. On the other hand, we stopped later that day for lunch and when we came outside, there were 5 or 6 old geysers admiring my bike while they totally ignored all of the new stuff in the parking lot. I'd say that tells a lot about where the emerging market is going and where Norton may well find itself; a dodo bird.
I must say that anyone who rides and whatever they ride is alright with me. I acknowledge (i.e., wave) all passing riders, whether they be on a 1954 Cushman, a 1963 Honda Cub or a 2016 Ducati Monster. If you own a 961 and I am assuming you do on this forum, that's great. I just wish that Norton would produce a better product with a more reasonable price point and with better marketing in order to compete successfully. The way it has been going, I'd be generous to give them another decade before they close the doors.

I believe your basic premise is flawed.

With an air cooled, 2 valve, pushrod engine I don’t think buyers or owners expect the 961 to compete in the power department with liquid called, 4 valve, DOHC designs. That is not why they buy the 961.
Perhaps it is why you buy a bike. Which is fine for you, but not so important to all others.

However, Norton is not producing a mass market machine for a demographic. They are producing a bespoke, extremely limited production machine for individuals who can afford the exclusivity, and appreciate the style, and experience. There is a little company in England called Morgan Motor Company producing a vehicle resembling a 1950’s British roadster. A car that a modern Porsche would destroy in a head to head competition. Who would want one of those things? Who? People who love classic style autos and who can afford the price to own one of them. Morgan is a bespoke manufacturer, with a waiting list of buyers, and the prices aren’t cheap. Style, and class have a demographic all their own.

Later this year Norton is scheduled to introduce their 1200cc V4. This may be more your cup of tea, horsepower wise.
Oh, but in limited numbers – remember a bespoke manufacturer - it’s supposed to cost $40,000 US.

Best to just buy your KTM 1190 or HyperStrada.
 
I bought a super high tech BMW S1000XR Sport SE 6 months ago, took one test ride and I was hooked,I had to have it! But I still have my 961 Sport of four years and love the way it rides without the need for any hi tech gizmo's. In the UK these bikes are almost identical in price but if the BMW was hand made it would cost a damn sight more :lol:

I was out on the Norton last week and parked up at a cafe next to a BMW identical to mine with the intention of swapping stories of ownership with the guy but he never showed up. A mini bus turned up though from a school trip and they were all taking photos stood next to the 961 not one went up to the (ugly?) super high tech BMW.

have to add though that BMW's "quick shift assist pro" is the best thing since sliced bread, especially when compared my Norton's gearbox.
 
I really love cNw product. Really I do. Take an old core bike, bore it, throw a better suspension on it, maybe some Brembos, electronic ignition,polish it up...what do you have? Something pretty much Kenny Dreer and Stuart Garner aimed for. The KTM and Co. are such unfair comparisons. Besides, go over every component of the bike and compare quality, not just performance bits. Besides.......KTMs are just butt ugly.
 
cwnrestomod,
Whether or not I like your bike(s), I wouldn't get on a forum dedicated to that particular motorcycle and spit out "IMHO" the bike is "JUNK". I'll try to keep my humble opinion about where you're from, what you ride, how you ride, live, dress, or spend your money to myself. I try not to pass judgement on those less fortunate than me or those who lack the wisdom and manners that I have. Your opinion is YOURS so don't badmouth my motorcycles.


Charlie
 
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