Sir Eddy's engine (2015)

Getting to the last mods on Sir Eddies LSR bike.

It was necessary to go back to Norton lifters to achieve the 10,500 rpm engine speed. The barrel was not built to hold Norton lifters and the bores were a little too large so I had to install aluminum bronze sleeves and build provisions for tabs to keep the lifters from rotating.



Here are the profiled lifters in place.



Here is the cylinder head. The ports are pretty nice but the 1mm oversize valves are somewhat shrouded in the bathtub chambers witch limits the flow potential.





The blue line is Sir Eddies head. The lower line is a stock 750 head and the two upper lines are Kenny and Martiyn's Fullauto heads.



I will be putting the lower end together next. Jim

Re: Sir Eddies engine

You do some outstanding work Jim, nice pics of what you do.

Thanks for putting the time in to show us all.

Ashley

Re: Sir Eddies engine

Love to see that on the Spintron...I know it is not feasable...

Re: Sir Eddies engine

comnoz said:

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Pardon my ignorance Jim, but for what purpose are the opposing v-grooves on each cylinder adjacent to the spark-plug holes?

Re: Sir Eddies engine

Are you planning to replace the helicoils in the head with your bronze inserts? It would seem like good insurance. I've used helicoils for those studs with no problems, but I've seen them pull out twice in other peoples heads, so now I use Timeserts, but your inserts would be even better.

SCTA has cancelled Speed Week because of the salt conditions, but the AMA meet (Bonneville Motorcycle Speed Trials) is still hoping for better conditions, so maybe we'll still get to run. They plan to look at the conditions in early August, and decide whether to hold the event. Hope we get to run, but a repeat of last year's conditions wouldn't be much fun. I've already got another bottle of Stranahan's Colorado Whiskey to celebrate with, and if Paul doesn't get to run, I'll just have to drink it all by myself.

Ken

Re: Sir Eddies engine

lcrken said:

Are you planning to replace the helicoils in the head with your bronze inserts? It would seem like good insurance. I've used helicoils for those studs with no problems, but I've seen them pull out twice in other peoples heads, so now I use Timeserts, but your inserts would be even better.

SCTA has cancelled Speed Week because of the salt conditions, but the AMA meet (Bonneville Motorcycle Speed Trials) is still hoping for better conditions, so maybe we'll still get to run. They plan to look at the conditions in early August, and decide whether to hold the event. Hope we get to run, but a repeat of last year's conditions wouldn't be much fun. I've already got another bottle of Stranahan's Colorado Whiskey to celebrate with, and if Paul doesn't get to run, I'll just have to drink it all by myself.

Ken

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The inserts look to be pretty sound and considering the limited amount of time that the engine is likely to be run I will probably leave them as they are. We may end up doing a better head eventually -depending on how this runs.


Dave,
The slots are called singh grooves. They are supposed to speed combustion. I have seen them used with some success on 2 stroke engines and diesels. Jim

Re: Sir Eddies engine

Jim, is the choice of fuel something special?

Re: Sir Eddies engine

Pardon my ignorance Jim, but for what purpose are the opposing v-grooves on each cylinder adjacent to the spark-plug holes?

Click to expand...

Those are Singh Grooves much pooped by most who have not tried them, designed as piston hit TDC and mixture becomes honey thick they are supposed to jet trapped mixture out into less turbulant area carrying burning flame with it then next instant suck some it back into the rim area for faster completer combustion. It is not exactly a power makers maninly a detonation inhibitor so only pays off if engine operated into otherwise detonation conditons, such as starting off in top gear w/o bucking and bumping CR or boost up some w/o extra octane. Dyno show it can be made worthworth but not if engine is not already tuned or operated into detonation states. Tamer tuned engines will not see much or any effect as they are not detonating to missing out on some extra power avaiable by not blowing up. One needs decent squish area at least .040 close for these to work as designed. Mainly sold and developed as an economy and less combustion pollution device. Not applicable to normal Norton heads w/o much squish area. Sir Eddie hoped it would help mix at hi rpm as heat and pressure build up on an all out run.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=singh+grooves

Re: Sir Eddies engine

o0norton0o said:

Jim, is the choice of fuel something special?

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It is high octane race fuel. It is BMST spec fuel. Jim

Re: Sir Eddies engine

ashman said:

You do some outstanding work Jim, nice pics of what you do.

Thanks for putting the time in to show us all.

Ashley

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+1 :mrgreen:

Re: Sir Eddies engine

lcrken said:

Are you planning to replace the helicoils in the head with your bronze inserts? It would seem like good insurance. I've used helicoils for those studs with no problems, but I've seen them pull out twice in other peoples heads, so now I use Timeserts, but your inserts would be even better.

SCTA has cancelled Speed Week because of the salt conditions, but the AMA meet (Bonneville Motorcycle Speed Trials) is still hoping for better conditions, so maybe we'll still get to run. They plan to look at the conditions in early August, and decide whether to hold the event. Hope we get to run, but a repeat of last year's conditions wouldn't be much fun. I've already got another bottle of Stranahan's Colorado Whiskey to celebrate with, and if Paul doesn't get to run, I'll just have to drink it all by myself.

Ken

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LOL, if we don't get to run I will fly down and help you with that Stranahan's. We can do some bench racing and by the time we get to the bottom of the bottle we would have thought we were at the salt. Keeping my fingers crossed that we get some dry hot weather for the next 30 days and the pond goes away.

comnoz said:

Getting to the last mods on Sir Eddies LSR bike.

It was necessary to go back to Norton lifters to achieve the 10,500 rpm engine speed. The barrel was not built to hold Norton lifters and the bores were a little too large so I had to install aluminum bronze sleeves and build provisions for tabs to keep the lifters from rotating.

Here are the profiled lifters in place.

Here is the cylinder head. The ports are pretty nice but the 1mm oversize valves are somewhat shrouded in the bathtub chambers witch limits the flow potential.

The blue line is Sir Eddies head. The lower line is a stock 750 head and the two upper lines are Kenny and Martiyn's Fullauto heads.

I will be putting the lower end together next. Jim

Click to expand...

Nice work Jim! As I have said to you many times thank you!
I am not sure why my dad didn't make the lifter bores the stock diameter. I would guess since he made the head from a block of aluminum and the lifters from scratch he wasn't concerned that they were stock diameter. I will let him know how difficult he made it for you to convert it back to fit the stock lifter blocks. When you looked at the head the first time you made the comment that you didn't think it was going to flow as well as the Fullauto heads and you were right. Let's hope that it will have enough being we are only 500cc. The original engine spec sheet called for 111 to 122 CFM to achieve the HP results and we peak at 140! Very exciting to see it coming back together! I appreciate all you do!

Who is Sir Eddy?

He was a successful racer back in the 50's & 60's from the northwest region of the country, he rode Norton's and more recently he was working on taking a shot at a land speed record in he 500cc pushrod class. Unfortunately he passed away before getting his bike out to the Bonneville salt flats. His sons and friends are putting forth the effort now. :wink:

A deer killed Sri Eddeie Twice form neck injury - first into comma and damage to nerves of equilibrium stopping his riding days, then a few years later by further neck damage that onsets stroke or heart attack. I feel somewhat responsible for Sir Eddie as I did not keep in touch after initial season of return home so he likely did not keep up with the neck protocols after some decent recovery to function again so got snipped out from brain stem impingement. i too have been through this and almost died twice after deer and track neck breaking knock outs, first during actue injury then about 3 yr later getting too much relief I got lazy and neck degenerated w/o me feeling it until stroke like attacks and spikes of pain/cramps in heart, till got back on my protocols before I shot my self while still could to escape the pain or leaving wife with a vegie to attend. This applies to all of you too even w/o dramatic injury the sag factor creeps up till it kills you before your time.

To Lengthen Thy Life, Stretch Thou Neck.
To Toughen Thy Life, Eat Rocks. (minerals)

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... D75.f01t03
Conclusion: Older men and women with hyperkyphotic posture have higher mortality rates.

hobot said:

A deer killed Sri Eddeie Twice form neck injury - first into comma and damage to nerves of equilibrium stopping his riding days, then a few years later by further neck damage that onsets stroke or heart attack. I feel somewhat responsible for Sir Eddie as I did not keep in touch after initial season of return home so he likely did not keep up with the neck protocols after some decent recovery to function again so got snipped out from brain stem impingement. i too have been through this and almost died twice after deer and track neck breaking knock outs, first during actue injury then about 3 yr later getting too much relief I got lazy and neck degenerated w/o me feeling it until stroke like attacks and spikes of pain/cramps in heart, till got back on my protocols before I shot my self while still could to escape the pain or leaving wife with a vegie to attend. This applies to all of you too even w/o dramatic injury the sag factor creeps up till it kills you before your time.

To Lengthen Thy Life, Stretch Thou Neck.
To Toughen Thy Life, Eat Rocks. (minerals)

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... D75.f01t03
Conclusion: Older men and women with hyperkyphotic posture have higher mortality rates.

Click to expand...

Hobot,
So this tread doesn't get off on the wrong foot and turns into the passing of my father or the way he passed I want to make sure everyone understands that it was not due to his accident which occurred when he hit the deer over going on seven years prior but an accident at my parents house that took his life suddenly from all of us. My mom had a ladies week out as they all do when they get older and my father Sir Eddy decided to surprise her with new granite counter tops and a sink in the kitchen. When my mom returned home they noticed that the dish washer had run over night but no water was on to clean the dishes. My dad Sir Eddy went under the sink to find that the contractor never turned the water valve back on to the dishwasher and my dad turned the valve on and the fitting came loose at the bottom of the valve and started to flood the house. My father looked for the shut off inside to find that it was outside in a cover like you find in older homes with a lid about 3 to 4 feet down with roofing on top and the shut off about two or three foot below ground level. My father like all of us reached down to shut the valve off and fell in face first and got himself trapped. Being that he was a 280 lb plus man my mom, neighbors and friends we unable to pull him out of the hole and he suffocated. ................... .................. Sir Eddy was a great father, friend and machinist that dreamt a dream to build a Norton 500 to become the fastest MP500 pushrod on the planet but the deer wreck slowed him down to where he knew what he wanted to do but his mind would not let him. His best friend Les Barker which was involved with this since the inception helped my dad with it up to his passing and then graciously helped me get it to the salt in 2014 knowing that it wasn't perfect but hopefully with the development and time it would at least get to make a maiden voyage. We had many obstacles with the ignition and the lifter block set screw coming out along with other tuning issues that made the first time to the salt was a very expensive learning curve. We never got out of the pits but I can say that my father was right there with us saying you Idiots if you only would have.... I have many thanks to Les Barker at Little Engine Service out of Vancouver Washington for getting the bike to the point of having a rolling chassis and motor to reality and then the saint Jim Comstock for happening to be out at the salt and willing to wrench on the bike with us to try to give a valiant effort to at least make one run with me as the pilot and Sir Eddie as the co-pilot. I am grateful for many things, a great father that taught me to be a man, great friends that put up with the man my father was and the man I am (much like him in good and bad) and a loving family and friends that made it possible for us to fulfill my father dreams of getting the Sir Eddy's Rocket to the salt. So now that we set the story straight on my father and the significant reasons of why I need to make sure we give this the best effort possible to fulfill his dream of setting the LSR in MP and MPS pushrod we will get back to Jim's tread on the progress of where he is going to take this motor with my fat ass on top of it with my father Sir Eddy.
Thank you Jim Comstock for taking on the challenge of fulfilling Sir Eddy's dream and will be forever grateful to you. AMEN!

Jim, please continue with your posting of the progress of Sir Eddy's Engine...

Ok, I only heard his was found dead inside and assumed dizzyness tripped him or a stroke mid stride. I am semi relieved as we spoke about what he had to do to stay ahead of the head neck injury. I am left hollow on a trapped chest death but this always on my mind to get a fraction of thrills Sir Eddie did. My father fought govt and pork barrel corruption till the tension wore out his horse broke neck to stroke to invalid state in court battle against International banksters for some years till one day my mother thought she could leave a short time to shop but he took opportunity to hang himself to escape. Go out and amaze us all with your fathers vision.

Jim had posted this on "About Time for Spintron "
He ran into a couple more challenges.

comnoz said:

I did more testing today using Sir Eddiy's cylinder head on the spintron.

Since the valves in Sir Eddy's head were near standard size and the stems were 6mm they were substantially lighter so I though maybe I could get by with the Honda springs that were on it when I got it.
This is with the custom Webcam and proflled lifters that had run to 10,500 with the big valve head and the IRL springs.

[video]https://youtu.be/XtQZ9uvL7ys[/video]

After hitting valve float with the Honda springs I noticed a large increase in exhaust valve clearance. I knew what that meant. A lost Stelite pad. {*(%^&&*]

After profiling another lifter 10,200 rpm was obtained with around 130 lbs seat pressure.

Next problem. The ultra-lightweight Ti valve caps didn't like the increase in spring pressure. Note the collets have pulled through about .035 on the exhaust valve.

Now what I need is some 8 or 10 degree retainers or some heavier spring caps. Kibblewhite-help. Jim

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It's never easy when you're pushing the limits, is it? I had a Stellite pad come off a lifter once in a race engine, and it wasn't very pretty either. Years ago Ron Fraturelli had some lifters made, BSA style as I recall, by grinding them out of solid material. My memory says some sort of carbide (not sure which compound) but I could be wrong. Might have been out of Stellite. Don't know how well that worked out. One of the virtues of the Stellite alloy that Norton used is that it's compatible with the materials they used for cams. Might have wear problems with other choices.

Ken

lcrken said:

It's never easy when you're pushing the limits, is it? I had a Stellite pad come off a lifter once in a race engine, and it wasn't very pretty either. Years ago Ron Fraturelli had some lifters made, BSA style as I recall, by grinding them out of solid material. My memory says some sort of carbide (not sure which compound) but I could be wrong. Might have been out of Stellite. Don't know how well that worked out. One of the virtues of the Stellite alloy that Norton used is that it's compatible with the materials they used for cams. Might have wear problems with other choices.

Ken

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One good thing about it. We are not on the salt doing repairs....