Rocker spindles backwards??

kn0ck4times

kn0ck4times

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Was wondering if anyone had a spare rocker spindle laying around and could take a measurement from the threaded end to the oil hole thats in the flat. All four spindles of mine are slightly out of alignment and when feeling with a hooked wire the hole seems to be at about 1.14” but facing inward instead of out which would be backwards being as the hole is in the flat. Just trying to verify its location before pulling the spindles. Have an andover spindle puller and alignment tool. Thanks for any help or advice.
Corey.
 
1.2465" from the flat end with the slot to the hole centerline using my HF caliper. Not a scrolled spindle.

Far as advice goes a good heat gun set at 900 degrees or a gas torch will make the job easier. I pull them with a bolt, nut, and spacer. I align them with a 1/2" wide 16 inch screw driver while the head is hot. I made a tool for aligning them but can't find it. ha

JSM spindle plates will hold the spindles in place better than the stock plates. You can take a small punch to the tabs on the stock plates and get them to engage the slot deeper.
 
Last edited:
Schwany said:
1.2465" from the flat end with the slot to the hole centerline using my HF caliper. Not a scrolled spindle.

Far as advice goes a good heat gun set at 900 degrees or a gas torch will make the job easier. I pull them with a bolt, nut, and spacer. I align them with a 1/2" wide 16 inch screw driver while the head is hot. I made a tool for aligning them but can't find it. ha

JSM spindle plates will hold the spindles in place better than the stock plates. You can take a small punch to the tabs on the stock plates and get them to engage the slot deeper.
Click to expand...
Any good way to catch the spring washer while head is hot when pulling spline. Will a magnet work? Would hate to have it fall in.
 
If you are only trying to turn the spindles to realign them, you don't need to pull the spindles out. Just heat the head right around the spindle and it will turn when the head is hot enough. Unless the spindles have a lot of miles on them they are probably OK. I know everybody's inner anal expert wants to pull them out and check the condition though. Me included.

Pulling the spindles with the head on the barrels sucks, if that is what you are doing. Lots of things to consider and a lot more care is required. I don't do this every day like some of these guys do, so they may attack the task differently. I just happened to be doing it yesterday.

The spring washer and shim washer usually fall down around the spring cup if they fall out of place. They can be fished out with a small hook like tool. If they go down the pushrod tunnel, you'll be lucky to fish them out. Although that has never happened to me yet. Only done it about 10 times though. A hook tool can also be used to pull the spring washer out once the spindle is clear of the spring washer. I don't pull the spindle all the way out until I have control of the spring washer and it is out. I use a small pair of angled pliers used primarily for small electrical parts work to compress the spring when reinstalling it after getting the spindle almost all the way in through the rocker arm. I also use a small screw driver to move the spring if I screw up aligning it right off the bat during reinstall. The valve springs make using bigger tools difficult, so I use small tools.

BTW, I would imagine a lot of used bikes that have had several owners and have had head work done have spindles that are slightly out of alignment along with just about every other part on the bike. lol
 
Schwany said:
If you are only trying to turn the spindles to realign them, you don't need to pull the spindles out. Just heat the head right around the spindle and it will turn when the head is hot enough. Unless the spindles have a lot of miles on them they are probably OK. I know everybody's inner anal expert wants to pull them out and check the condition though. Me included.

Pulling the spindles with the head on the barrels sucks, if that is what you are doing. Lots of things to consider and a lot more care is required. I don't do this every day like some of these guys do, so they may attack the task differently. I just happened to be doing it yesterday.

The spring washer and shim washer usually fall down around the spring cup if they fall out of place. They can be fished out with a small hook like tool. If they go down the pushrod tunnel, you'll be lucky to fish them out. Although that has never happened to me yet. Only done it about 10 times though. A hook tool can also be used to pull the spring washer out once the spindle is clear of the spring washer. I don't pull the spindle all the way out until I have control of the spring washer and it is out. I use a small pair of angled pliers used primarily for small electrical parts work to compress the spring when reinstalling it after getting the spindle almost all the way in through the rocker arm. I also use a small screw driver to move the spring if I screw up aligning it right off the bat during reinstall. The valve springs make using bigger tools difficult, so I use small tools.

BTW, I would imagine a lot of used bikes that have had several owners and have had head work done have spindles that are slightly out of alignment along with just about every other part on the bike. lol
Click to expand...
Will probably just try to spin them as long as I’m confident what I’m feeling with the hook is the hole on the flat. Is there anything else that the hook would catch up on in there?
 
kn0ck4times said:
Will probably just try to spin them as long as I’m confident what I’m feeling with the hook is the hole on the flat. Is there anything else that the hook would catch up on in there?
Click to expand...
Just the one hole in mine.

How freely do the rockers move up and down with the adjusters out and cam on the base circle for the rocker being checked? They won't move far, but they should be relatively easy to move with only the spring washer tension on the end. If they don't want to move. Pull them because the rocker and spindle might/would need to be replaced. At the very least they would need to be examined when stuck. I'm trying not to be too negative.
 
Rockers move freely when not under valve tension. Engine runs fine as of last time I started it a few months back before winter. Just decided to replace spindle plates and inspect and was suspect they are in backwards.
 
When I did the intake valve seal replacements using Ludwig's method, still in frame, all I needed to pull spindles was heat and a length of hollow tube with some nuts, washers and long bolt as a puller. To prevent spring/thackery falling somewhere nasty, just stuffed some paper towels under the spindles in the rocker boxes. Worked out fine. Went ahead and replaced the all four valve springs while there.
 
Don't see everyone's problem with pulling rocker spindles. Turn crank as you would when setting valves. When there is gap pull spindle, warm the head a little. I use the slide hammer that removes timing advance, same thread. Warm head and slide them back in, easy peasy!
 
In all my years of owning my Norton (46+years) and a few rebuilds I have never remove the rocker spindles, see no reason at all to do so still fitted from the factory, I am still running with my original valves and my motor has well over 160K miles on it, it don't rattle its guts out.
 
mean gene said:
Don't see everyone's problem with pulling rocker spindles. Turn crank as you would when setting valves. When there is gap pull spindle, warm the head a little. I use the slide hammer that removes timing advance, same thread. Warm head and slide them back in, easy peasy!
Click to expand...
Who has a problem?
 
L.A.B. said:
The rocker spindle thread is 5/16" x 26.
www.rgmnorton.co.uk

ROCKER SPINDLE EXTRACTOR

ROCKER SPINDLE EXTRACTOR P189 RGM NORTON
www.rgmnorton.co.uk
The auto advance thread is 5/16" x 24 (UNF).
www.rgmnorton.co.uk

SLIDE HAMMER (AUTO ADVANCE)

061028 RGM NORTON 064298
www.rgmnorton.co.uk
Click to expand...
The one I have is a slide hammer that has the coarser thread on one end and the finer on the other. I wouldn't know how to replace it though, it was given to me by John Nelson at Wolverhampton 50 years ago -- I think that it was included in a sample kit that MCAston supplied to the Norton Villiers Service Department in hopes of winning a service tool order.
Mine isn't as pretty as the RGM slide hammer, which also has the two different threads.
 
kn0ck4times said:
Was wondering if anyone had a spare rocker spindle laying around and could take a measurement from the threaded end to the oil hole thats in the flat. All four spindles of mine are slightly out of alignment and when feeling with a hooked wire the hole seems to be at about 1.14” but facing inward instead of out which would be backwards being as the hole is in the flat. Just trying to verify its location before pulling the spindles. Have an andover spindle puller and alignment tool. Thanks for any help or advice.
Corey.
Click to expand...
Which direction should the oil holes face (exh & Inl)?
 
Blewdy Yaink said:
The one I have is a slide hammer that has the coarser thread on one end and the finer on the other. I wouldn't know how to replace it though, it was given to me by John Nelson at Wolverhampton 50 years ago -- I think that it was included in a sample kit that MCAston supplied to the Norton Villiers Service Department in hopes of winning a service tool order.
Mine isn't as pretty as the RGM slide hammer, which also has the two different threads.
Click to expand...

According to the factory manual (section C2, 3) the slide hammer used to remove the rocker spindles is "064298", however, RGM's 064298 slide hammer (and probably others) is 5/16" UNF (24 TPI) x 5/16" BSF (22 TPI) not the normal 5/16" x 26 rocker spindle thread.
I don't think a 5/16" x 22 BSF extractor thread would be of any use for a Commando unless anyone knows differently.
 
As said by RGM , you can replace the stud if worn , like mine was till this morning when I saw you can fit gearbox stud 000271 , 5/16-22 one end 5/16-26 the other end , fit perfectly in the tool and in a rocker spindle , great find , cause before i had to search after crankshaft stud in BSC in my bin box !
 
ashman said:
In all my years of owning my Norton (46+years) and a few rebuilds I have never remove the rocker spindles, see no reason at all to do so still fitted from the factory, I am still running with my original valves and my motor has well over 160K miles on it, it don't rattle its guts out.
Click to expand...
I didn't know a Smith's speedo would make 160K miles. Is that a worlds record? :)

For me it's much easier to replace valves and valve springs or do other work on the head with the rockers out of the way. Besides when I rebuild my motor it all comes apart.

I have a new Norton head sitting in the back of my El Camino I've had for 35 years that has never had the spindles out of it. Although I can't see how that information is very useful. lol
 
Not only do I have my original speedo drive I also running the original cable, replaced the cable 2x but they did last long so the original cable came back on, my speedo was damaged back in 83 from the great fire, been running a Triumph speedo that was given to me but the original speedo was saved and rebuilt 12 years ago but it's sitting in the cabinet for now.
I don't rely on speedo readings I average 6 to 10k miles a year when it was a everyday rider so over 40 years on the road - a few lower mileage in semi retirement it adds up.
 
L.A.B. said:
According to the factory manual (section C2, 3) the slide hammer used to remove the rocker spindles is "064298", however, RGM's 064298 slide hammer (and probably others) is 5/16" UNF (24 TPI) x 5/16" BSF (22 TPI) not the normal 5/16" x 26 rocker spindle thread.
I don't think a 5/16" x 22 BSF extractor thread would be of any use for a Commando unless anyone knows differently.
Click to expand...
To be more precise, my slide hammer is BSCycle (26 Tpi) at the fine end and a coarser thread on the other. TBH, I don't think I've ever used the coarser thread so I don't know if it's BSF or UNF. As I mentioned, it was a sample provided (with several other tools -- that's where I got my three-jaw crankshaft timing pinion tool, which I've never used because every pinion has come out with simple finger pressure on every bottom end rebuild I've done) as part of a sales pitch. I'll measure the coarser end to check.
This makes me realize why there are two slide hammers in my tool box. The other is 5/16 x 24 and 5/16 x 22. All these years, I thought that they were the same.
 
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