Rider or mechanic ?

acotrel

acotrel

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I noticed when reading the Classic Bike article about Dave Croxford, that when he first raced he bought a Manx and replaced the motor with a Triumph Tiger 100 motor. I wonder how many guys have built their own race bike out of parts and won races with what they built ? I think most guys who win races ride bikes other people have built. And many don't even contribute to the development of the bike.
 
The 1957 motocross world champion Bill Nilsson built his bike around a AJS 7R engine that he had extended to 500cc, For the last race in the championship, AJS supplied him with two factory mechanics. In 1958 AJS/Matchless introduced the G50.
 
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Not to forget the McCandless brothers. Racers who built their own frames which became the most famous frame of all.
 
Mike40M said:
In sidecar racing, there was a lot of racers that built their own machines. One of them was Colin Seeley.
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I have always wondered how Colin Seeley got his solo frames so right. I think the McCandless brothers used to race theirs'. With Colin Seeley, there seems to be an association with Tom Arter, and Peter Williams.
 
acotrel said:
I have always wondered how Colin Seeley got his solo frames so right. I think the McCandless brothers used to race theirs'. With Colin Seeley, there seems to have been an association with Tom Arter, and Peter Williams.
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The guy who interests me is John Surtees. He built Brabham racing cars and an excellent 7R AJS. I think the combination of racing experience and engineering ability is very good. Barry Shene seemed to achieve a lot with the RG500 Suzukis.
 
ludwig said:
Wrong forum.
This has nothing to do with Norton Commandos.
Just another attempt to pollute the forum with an endless thread of 'my Seeley' and 500cc Triumph nonsense..
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Ludwig, many things are about values. Seeley Commandos and normal Commandos are both valuable in their own right - BOTH are commandos. The ,most valuable Commandos are the genuine racers. The production racers and the PW Commandos. I would not use a normal Commando for racing, nor would I use a Seeley Commando for road use.
I dislike historic racing because most of the bikes are non-genuine, I prefer to race in open classes against moderns. But if I had a genuine Commando Production Racer, I'd be more interested in historic racing.
These days it would be possible to buy a 916 Commando motor and fit it into a Harris frame. But you would probably be stopped from racing it.
 
acotrel said:
These days it would be possible to buy a 916 Commando motor and fit it into a Harris frame. But you would probably be stopped from racing it.
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No you wouldn’t, you could enter it in open class racing.

Might actually surprise a few, you could sneak off the line whilst the other riders were rolling on the floor laughing at you...

Seriously Al, to build something like that for racing would be plain stupid. Cool road bike. Stupid race bike !
 
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acotrel said:
Ludwig, many things are about values. Seeley Commandos and normal Commandos are both valuable in their own right - BOTH are commandos. The ,most valuable Commandos are the genuine racers. The production racers and the PW Commandos. I would not use a normal Commando for racing, nor would I use a Seeley Commando for road use.
I dislike historic racing because most of the bikes are non-genuine, I prefer to race in open classes against moderns. But if I had a genuine Commando Production Racer, I'd be more interested in historic racing.
These days it would be possible to buy a 916 Commando motor and fit it into a Harris frame. But you would probably be stopped from racing it.
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It is either a commando or a seeley with a NORTON engine. acording to your thinking than you could have an atlas commando. the commando was a model made by norton not the brand of engine.
 
acotrel said:
Seeley Commandos and normal Commandos are both valuable in their own right - BOTH are commandos...
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Wrong again.
Norton developed a new frame and put the Atlas engine in it.
They named it ' Norton Commando'
It is the FRAME that determines whether it is a Commando or not.
Al : you can put your Norton engine in a wheelchair if you like, but it won't be a Commando.
( now, here is a thought..)
 
I think that the move of this thread to Motorcycle related discussions, solved the problem.
So back to the original questions.
A friend of mine who is working with MotoGP bikes says that most riders are quite good at explaining how the bike behaves so he can adjust the bikes for the actual track and weather conditions. So the riders are an important part in development. Nowadays you must have a team of specialists to be on the top. So the time when you could build a bike out of different parts and race it successfully is gone.
 
Mike40M said:
I think that the move of this thread to Motorcycle related discussions, solved the problem.
So back to the original questions.
A friend of mine who is working with MotoGP bikes says that most riders are quite good at explaining how the bike behaves so he can adjust the bikes for the actual track and weather conditions. So the riders are an important part in development. Nowadays you must have a team of specialists to be on the top. So the time when you could build a bike out of different parts and race it successfully is gone.
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I don't think Mike Hailwood was good at providing feedback about what his bike was doing. However I think that what he rode, did not do much wrong.
 
ludwig said:
Wrong again.
Norton developed a new frame and put the Atlas engine in it.
They named it ' Norton Commando'
It is the FRAME that determines whether it is a Commando or not.
Al : you can put your Norton engine in a wheelchair if you like, but it won't be a Commando.
( now, here is a thought..)
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And they removed the magneto, put points on the end of the cam and drilled a big hole in the crank - but it was still an Atlas engine - but with a lean and a bit added on the back of the crankcases ?
 
acotrel said:
And they removed the magneto, put points on the end of the cam and drilled a big hole in the crank - but it was still an Atlas engine - but with a lean and a bit added on the back of the crankcases ?
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wrong again. the only changes from atlas to early commando that i can think of was relocate the oil line on the head, balance factor for isolastics and the tilt forward. the points was still at the rear of the crankcase just like the late atlas.
 
Bill :
I believe they also raised compression, from concave to flat top pistons.

Al:
Both bikes in this pic. have identical engines.
The blue bike is a Norton Commando.
Would you say that the red one with its Matchless frame is also a Commando?
Of course not.
Neither is a Seeley framed bike, regardless of what engine it has.


Rider or mechanic ?
 
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