RGM Cam followers - Lifters

Fast Eddie · Dec 30, 2018

Ditto ref the BelRay Glen.

If anyone wants a few quarts of Redline 20w60 let me know...

(Maybe a hinge collector or similar...?)

comnoz · Dec 30, 2018

worntorn said:
When it read 62-65 RC cam you had me kerfuffled
If my memory is correct you found most of the Webcams around 55 RC or so?
I was thinking this is why the lifters should be 58 or better as going the other way would be too low for lifter hardness.

Some seem to say that hardness difference is needed, but it doesn't much matter which part is the harder as long as it's there and both parts are hard enough.
So perhaps if the Norton cams were harder, a lower value lifter might work?

Then there is the crowd that says it doesn't matter , use same stellite for both ( Robinson)

Anyway, I have a 64 RC cam 58 RC follower and very bumpy cam in the 1360 and not much of an oil pump.
It will be interesting to see if it lasts!
So far it is just starting to shine up nicely, but still low miles.

Everything is getting BelRay oil from now on, should last forever!

Glen

I wish I could get a Norton cam at 62 and a follower a little harder. I have not seen a Norton weld up cam that hard. The last batch of Web cams I got were ~ 58 RHC.

I wonder what process Robinson uses to get a 62 RHC cam.

worntorn · Dec 30, 2018

Robinson cams and followers are stellite of some sort, but not that hard, IIRC mid fifties RC.
My 1360 setup is from Terry Prince.
His cams and followers are made of 8620 and case hardened to .040 depth.
He believes in maintaining that 5to6RC hardness difference, so the cams are at 64rc+- and followers at 58.

Glen

comnoz · Dec 30, 2018

worntorn said:
Robinson cams and followers are stellite of some sort, but not that hard, IIRC mid fifties RC.
My 1360 setup is from Terry Prince.
His cams and followers are made of 8620 and case hardened to .040 depth.
He believes in maintaining that 5to6RC hardness difference, so the cams are at 64rc+- and followers at 58.

Glen

OK, That makes sense then.

Hortons Norton · Feb 11, 2020

I see Andover has the new 1 piece followers listed.

comnoz · Feb 11, 2020

Hortons Norton said:
I see Andover has the new 1 piece followers listed.

Hopefully not the same followers I tested.

I now have carbide faced followers in limited numbers available.
They are only suitable for use on Webcam Stelite camshafts -they are not compatible with case hardened cams.
They have been tested for ~ 300 hours in my spintron with virtually no wear.
They use a hardened chromoly body and weight 20 to 25 grams less than stock.

Hortons Norton · Feb 11, 2020

Very nice, with and without radius?

comnoz · Feb 11, 2020

Hortons Norton said:
Very nice, with and without radius?

I have special cams being made for the pictured follower. It is a 1.1 inch radius.
This has been the best combination -both for wear and valve train control.

I can also do them flat or up to 5 inch radius for use with the 312 or 312a grind.

I do the carbide facing to order.

Fullauto · Feb 12, 2020

comnoz said:
Hopefully not the same followers I tested.

I now have carbide faced followers in limited numbers available.
They are only suitable for use on Webcam Stelite camshafts -they are not compatible with case hardened cams.
They have been tested for ~ 300 hours in my spintron with virtually no wear.
They use a hardened chromoly body and weight 20 to 25 grams less than stock.
View attachment 14344 View attachment 14345

It's strange how a small, one man operation in the wilds of Colorado can come up with the solution to the problem followers when the official suppliers dither and claim the problem is either non-existent, or that they have found a workable solution, which they haven't, while people hunt down second hand followers from years past just to get something that will get the job done properly without destroying their expensive engine rebuild, only to be met with deafening silence by the, well, silent majority. Credit should go to the man.

ntst8 · Feb 12, 2020

We in the Norton community are blessed to have team Colorado on our side but at least one of the "official" suppliers has also just released new lifters. Andover's news page has new one piece units, no more detachable steelite.

guest76 · Feb 13, 2020

@ntst8 they are the same one piece followers that Jim is referring to that he tested previously.

Take a look at this thread to get up to date on the story.

https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/cam-followers-andover-to-the-rescue.29036/

bill · Feb 13, 2020

the issue is the two partys went down two diffrent paths.AN was working on how to make a follower to work with ALL camshafts while with jims soultion it will only with the hard welded cam. chalk and cheese as you would say.

Fullauto said:
It's strange how a small, one man operation in the wilds of Colorado can come up with the solution to the problem followers when the official suppliers dither and claim the problem is either non-existent, or that they have found a workable solution, which they haven't, while people hunt down second hand followers from years past just to get something that will get the job done properly without destroying their expensive engine rebuild, only to be met with deafening silence by the, well, silent majority. Credit should go to the man.

acadian · Feb 13, 2020

comnoz said:
I have special cams being made for the pictured follower. It is a 1.1 inch radius.
This has been the best combination -both for wear and valve train control.

I can also do them flat or up to 5 inch radius for use with the 312 or 312a grind.

I do the carbide facing to order.

Jim, will these carbide faced lifters be a drop in replacement to go with the 312A I bought from you?

comnoz · Feb 13, 2020

acadian said:
Jim, will these carbide faced lifters be a drop in replacement to go with the 312A I bought from you?

Yes they would.

Fullauto · Feb 13, 2020

bill said:
the issue is the two partys went down two diffrent paths.AN was working on how to make a follower to work with ALL camshafts while with jims soultion it will only with the hard welded cam. chalk and cheese as you would say.

Yes, but one succeeded and one did not.

comnoz · Feb 13, 2020

Designing a follower to be used with one known alloy was not that difficult.

A carbide blend that works with the Stellite on a Webcam is not something new.

Applying the hardface to a steel follower body without brazing is the hard part.

The big advantage is a follower without the compromises that would be needed to accommodate several different alloys.

Testing the carbide faced followers with a stock case hardened cam resulted in lobes that smoothly wore away in only a few hours.

worntorn · Feb 13, 2020

I wonder if it's even possible to have one cam follower work with all of the different cam materials?
Original Norton didn't have to contend with this. Good that Jim has found cam and followers that will hold up
Admirable that Andover is trying to find a solution for multiple cams. The odds seem stacked against you.
Still, it's better than spending your time in Aston Martin show rooms ( six Astons , 1 Jag and 4 Range Rovers is what SG needed to do work on motorcycles!)

Glen

jseng1 · Feb 13, 2020

There is another lifter hard surface solution. The lifters below have the hard surface welded directly to the steel body (not brazed) - similar to hard welded cams. Some of these lifters have been running in Nortons for years and I haven't heard of any wear or complaints except for the fact that they are no longer available. The hard surface works well on all types of cams - billet as well as cams with hardwelded lobes.

I was told that the SRM camfollower hard surface is stellite #6 hardweld approx 50 HRC - softer than the 56 or 60 type hardwelding that Webcam uses so it is compatible.

They came supplied with a 1.125 radius and could be reshaped down to a .875" radius for wilder cams. The manufacturer of the SRM lifters no longer exists. But someone else is working on producing this shape of lifter again. Weight of the lifter shown above is only 38 grams compared to the 75 gram stock Norton lifter.

kommando · Feb 13, 2020

Mark Cook's PES company in UK make a similar cam follower to the SRM one but its for the BSA Unit single B50, so he has the capability to make the BSA Twin version as they have the same basic design.

comnoz · Feb 13, 2020

kommando said:
Mark Cook's PES company in UK make a similar cam follower to the SRM one but its for the BSA Unit single B50, so he has the capability to make the BSA Twin version as they have the same basic design.

The SRM followers are a softer Stellite based alloy so they can be used with stock cams. They are a compromise when run on on a Webcam.

The carbide followers I am making are 62-63 RHC

RGM Cam followers - Lifters

Fast Eddie

comnoz

worntorn

comnoz

Hortons Norton

comnoz

Hortons Norton

comnoz

Fullauto

ntst8

guest76

Guest

bill

acadian

comnoz

Fullauto

comnoz

worntorn

jseng1

kommando

comnoz

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