Replacement ignitions

Q

quawk

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I know a common upgrade that is done to these bike is to install a modern electronic type of ignition, and there are several different ones available. I'd just as soon keep my bike as stock as possible. Is there really that much to be gained by installing an aftermarket electronic ignition, or if you keep your stock points ignition maintained properly, is it a reasonably reliable ignition that will run long term? I grew up driving cars with simple points and coil ignition and I drove them many miles without having to fiddle with the points but very rarely if ever.
 
You answer your own question. Stick with points.
They work.
I used Points, Boyer and pazon these also work.
But if you are set on points... go for it.
 
I've wondered about this.

The general view here tends to be, pick the right EI (opinions very), set it up and jobs a good 'un. Fit and forget.

For classic Hondas of the same era, the view tends to be, points aren't difficult, look after them and you'll never get stranded at the side of the road. At least, not because of your ignition!

IDK. My Commando came with a mk4 Boyer, my CB750 with points. Happy with both.
 
I have points - no problems. I bought an EI and it sits in the box . While I have little experience with EI it is my understanding that some are voltage sensitive so if the battery goes a bit flat the timing stays advanced - not a good thing for your lower extremities on a kickstart machine. Others claim the ignition advance curve is incorrect in some units .
I like points - you can see what’s wrong if it happens ( which it never has ) but then I am a confirmed Luddite.
 
I was using points, but in a Lucas magneto.

Points wear and that makes timing erratic. Replacement points were of such poor quality that timing would not stay consistent for more than a couple of hundred miles. When timing wanders at high rpm and varies between cylinders, the bike is not running at its best and is at risk of damage.

A good points system, like German bikes had, might be worth sticking with, but I’m unlikely to ever be happy with points on a British twin.

I’ve been using the Wassell ignition, cheapo Chinese reg/rec and a good 12V alternator and battery for about seven years and it’s trouble-free, although I’ve destroyed two ignition coils.
 
I have a Tri-spark on my Norton. I ran the OEM points/AAU for several years after removing a very poorly functioning Boyer that the PO had installed. I had no issues at all with the OEM ignition but went to the Trispark because changing to EI seemed to be "the thing to do" back then ('08) and the TS maintained the OEM advance curve. On my 1976 Honda CB400F (four cylinder) I run the original points and see no reason to modify it. Frankly, if I bought a Commando today with the original points/AAU system, I wouldn't change it to EI but the TriSpark has been bulletproof since I installed it in '08.
 
Triton Thrasher said:
I was using points, but in a Lucas magneto.

Points wear and that makes timing erratic. Replacement points were of such poor quality that timing would not stay consistent for more than a couple of hundred miles. When timing wanders at high rpm and varies between cylinders, the bike is not running at its best and is at risk of damage.

A good points system, like German bikes had, might be worth sticking with, but I’m unlikely to ever be happy with points on a British twin.

I’ve been using the Wassell ignition, cheapo Chinese reg/rec and a good 12V alternator and battery for about seven years and it’s trouble-free, although I’ve destroyed two ignition coils.
Click to expand...
I agree with TT. Points wear and need maintenance. Getting the timing set just right can involve a lot of small tweaking. When strobe timing, moving the points plate only sets timing for the cylinder you are checking. The other cylinders points must be dialed in by adjusting the points on the plate. As TT says when timing wanders at high rpm and varies between cylinders, bad things happen. Also, advance units wear out. An electronic ignition is almost set it and forget it, but it is good practice to check timing periodically to verify everything is as it should be.
 
"if you keep your stock points ignition maintained properly, is it a reasonably reliable ignition that will run long term? I grew up driving cars with simple points and coil ignition and I drove them many miles without having to fiddle with the points but very rarely if ever."

Define:
"many miles"
"Fiddle with points very rarely if ever"

Will you be a "parade rider" of the Norton? (500 miles annually)

I have been cleaning/filing/setting/replacing points for 53 years. It's easy (as you know) when you are competent at it.
All that said, I'm busy and the EI reduces the work load on me.

Just run the points, and if you get tired of "fiddling🎻", then retrofit an EI.
 
Setting points with a matchbook cover. Ahh those were the days. Remember Mallory dual points for V8's? My points file is probably a line of rust in some drawer somewhere.

Points are not the best ignition option for anything anymore. Reasons have been given.
 

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As you noted I too grew up with a leaf/feeler gauge in my tool collection. My dad showed me how to use it on our Briggs and Stratton lawn mower when I was 7 yrs. old. Points were the norm for a lot of engines I have dealt with over the years.

I installed EI during my Commando restoration for a couple of simple reasons...simplicity of application and modern technology fits nicely on this older engine.
There is a reason most all engine designers and builders switched to EI as ignition development became both common and reliable.
Thats what I wanted.

But as Concourse said, if you like the extra variables in place, points as an ignition component can be reliable if you maintain them. I would note that you questioned what an auto advance unit is. No criticism intended but that component too has been around for a very long time, auto, vacuum, ported vacuum, on and on.
Consider EI for more ride time and less tweak time, unless you are in it for the tweaking, lots of owners are, have fun.
 
As I expected when I started this thread, there is no definitive response or answer to my question and opinions are divided. There is always one guy who defies the norm and will do or say otherwise, but I doubt many if any of these bikes were ever used for truly long distance, cross country touring meaning riding these bikes long enough distances in one outing to where your points setting would be worn or changed enough to cause problems or leave you stranded before you'd be back home to check over the ignition/points if necessary in preparation for your next ride. In other words nobody is going to ride a thousand miles in one day, and I would expect that once set properly, the stock points ignition ought to operate at least that long or longer before needing any attention.
 
quawk said:
As I expected when I started this thread, there is no definitive response or answer to my question and opinions are divided. There is always one guy who defies the norm and will do or say otherwise, but I doubt many if any of these bikes were ever used for truly long distance, cross country touring meaning riding these bikes long enough distances in one outing to where your points setting would be worn or changed enough to cause problems or leave you stranded before you'd be back home to check over the ignition/points if necessary in preparation for your next ride. In other words nobody is going to ride a thousand miles in one day, and I would expect that once set properly, the stock points ignition ought to operate at least that long or longer before needing any attention.
Click to expand...
Your question was answered as well as could be expected, given the question!

There is no debate that points work just fine.

There are performance and usage issues, but the main issue is one of maintenance: how much work, how frequent, and how difficult.

EI is super accurate and is generally 100% consistent until it breaks, then its simply replaced. This can be an issue if it fails at the roadside, a disadvantage compared to points. In contrast, points systems degrade, and on top of that the AAU is now WELL past its designed life cycle. On top of that, you are at the mercy of aftermarket points manufacturers.

EI is super easy to fit and adjust. Brands like Tri Spark with their built in LED light are SO easy to set SO accurately that I personally do not bother strobing anymore! And once set, they stay set. Conversely, getting points ‘bang on’ takes some time and skill.

EI (as mentioned above) stays set. It requires virtually zero maintenance. Conversely, points change / degrade over time (or usage) and require frequent checking, cleaning, fettling, adjusting IF peak performance is desired.

TTs point is a good one, Boyer was invented back when these bikes were still new and genuine points were available etc. Yet their EI was still seen as an improvement for racing.

And a very practical additional benefit to some of the modern EIs their anti kick back protection.

So yes, there is no debate that points ‘work’.

But what works ‘best’ is up to the individual and their criteria.

Yer pays yer money and makes yer choice…
 
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quawk said:
As I expected when I started this thread, there is no definitive response or answer to my question and opinions are divided. There is always one guy who defies the norm and will do or say otherwise, but I doubt many if any of these bikes were ever used for truly long distance, cross country touring meaning riding these bikes long enough distances in one outing to where your points setting would be worn or changed enough to cause problems or leave you stranded before you'd be back home to check over the ignition/points if necessary in preparation for your next ride. In other words nobody is going to ride a thousand miles in one day, and I would expect that once set properly, the stock points ignition ought to operate at least that long or longer before needing any attention.
Click to expand...
quack, I will give you a definitive answer, but it is ultimately just my opinion. Buy and install A Tri-Spark unit, your bike will repay you with many miles of trouble free ignition operation. IMO, Tri-Spark is the best offering. No black box. I too, once held to the position that I wanted to keep my bikes as original as possible, but unless you are shooting for a 100 point show bike and your plan is to get out and ride, go with EI. The Tri-Spark is a nearly fool proof installation. It is programmed for easy starts and, as I understand it, monitors timing at idle speeds too. Properly tuned carbs and EI make for one kick starts and no embarrassing/dangerous stop light kills.
--- Sorry about the double reply, I couldn't find a way to remove the second quote---
quawk said:
As I expected when I started this thread, there is no definitive response or answer to my question and opinions are divided. There is always one guy who defies the norm and will do or say otherwise, but I doubt many if any of these bikes were ever used for truly long distance, cross country touring meaning riding these bikes long enough distances in one outing to where your points setting would be worn or changed enough to cause problems or leave you stranded before you'd be back home to check over the ignition/points if necessary in preparation for your next ride. In other words nobody is going to ride a thousand miles in one day, and I would expect that once set properly, the stock points ignition ought to operate at least that long or longer before needing any attention
Click to expand...
 

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