Remove the head with the engine in place

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pierodn

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Should I remove the head with the engine in place in the frame because there are oil leak by pushrods side.
This is the first time that I do this with the engine in place and hope there is enough space even for refit the head.
Do you have any suggestions or tips that I must follow?
Thank you.
Piero
 
Piero,

instead of going through the time and hassle of removing and reinstalling the head to chase an oil leak...

do you have a one way valve in your breather hose?

in addition to torquing all the head bolts
 
1up3down said:
Piero,

instead of going through the time and hassle of removing and reinstalling the head to chase an oil leak...

do you have a one way valve in your breather hose?

in addition to torquing all the head bolts
Click to expand...

Hi,
the bike mounts the Jim Comnoz breather in place of the oil plug.
Please, explain me better why do you think to the breather.
I tightened up all bolt that more cannot bebut from the cylinder/head, push rods side, there is a oil leak.
Thank you.
Piero
 
Yes, you can remove the head with the engine in the frame. The procedure is detailed in the shop manual, with a couple of drawings.

The trick is to hold the pushrods up in the head as far as they'll go while lifting and rotating the head - sometimes best done with three or four hands.
 
Piero,

do you plan on installing a new head gasket to try to stop the leak, is that your plan?
 
Getting it off is easy and straight forward with the engine in the frame. .5 hour Job with a little practice.

Getting it back on is the tricky part. Not only holding the pushrod up in the head as it is lowered, but also maintaining the the pushrods position in the rockers as you bring the head to its resting position.
But we'll deal with that later.
 
You also have to get all the head steady parts and anything else in the area out of the way. I put mine on about 3 times during installation, I got pretty good the 3rd time. Like others, make sure the rods are seated correctly during install, turn the engine over slowly by hand and watch the rod ends. The shop manual method worked for me, rubber bands, wood block spacers and rags help a lot. You have to put the rods in the head way up past the rocker arms and hold them there while installing the head.

Dave
 
I put the head oil feed banjo bolts back in to use zip tires or wire or cord to hold head up while diddling the pushrods up full into rocker roof to clear barrel the zip tie a loop to jam em to stay up then click the support ties and ease out to the LH side. Put gasket on barrel with or w/o sealant then hang head over it to release the pushrods. I soon began using a pair or rubber bands knotted together stretched over head with ends around rockers to hold some pressure on each push rod seated on lifter or tend to pop out each time its mate is seated. Wiggle head down till center bolt can draw down most the way then add the others and precede to torque sequence ritual. Might want to do a slight at home warm up cool down retorque just in case of any gasket crush down to take up before road going loads. If that don't do it likely off with its head again down to the piston rings.
 
When I remove the head in what position must be the pistons?
When i refit the head, the four rockers head valves adjuster must be loosened?
Thanks.
Piero
 
Don't think it matters where the pistons are for removal, but you'll still have to stuff the rods up past the rocker arms to get the head and rods out together.

During installation, you'll have to hold the rods up in the head PAST THE ROCKER ARMS with rubber bands while manipulating the head over the cylinder. Have the pistons at TDC and use some 1/4" spacers to hold the head up above the cylinder and MAKE SURE the rods are located in the sockets. Remove the spacers and tighten CAREFULLY the 4 bolts by the plug holes, making sure nothing binds, rotate the engine by hand during tightening to make sure nothing is binding. Once the 4 bolts are snug but not tight, the head is on the gasket and the engine is turning over and the rods and sockets are lined up, install the rest of the nuts bolts and do the torque sequence. I'd still turn the engine over during torque sequence.

That's pretty much how I did it.
 
It's easiest if you observe the rocker movement while slowly rotating the head with the spark plugs out. When you have 3 of the 4 rockers fully disengages, and the 4th one just starting to depress the valve, you will have the least spring resistance against loosening bolts and cocking the head at an angle against the loosening bolts.

Re-installing is easy with two bits of clean rag stuffed in place in the pushrod tunnels of the head, holding the pushrods as high up as possible, tilt the had forward and slowly tip it back and in in an arcing motion. Pull the rags out just before the head makes contact.
 
I found the rag method tended to trap rags and drag gasket out of line and/or smear away sealant applied that's not yet set up. Then again I'm not as competent as real mechanics. Intake push rods go up first then fart and fuss the exht ones up. Rockers need to tip fully to do this so back off the adjusters fully or leave out. If ya ever get chance to grind off the very end rounds of rockers close to the balls surrounds push rods slip in first time every time so job goes as fast as can just twist fasteners in or out and hook up what it needs to ride off. I did get a bit of relief on un modifed rockers by slightly grinding the width of the steel push rod top ends.
 
Other thing is to hold the rocker arm rod ends up as high as possible with rubber bands.
Or get the Hemmings Video, he shows it.
 
I am what you would call an "expert" in head removal and installation as I have done it dozens of times all by myself.
It doesn't mean it's easy.
What I have done this last time was smear a little silicone around both side of the oil drain hole and push rod tunnel ports on the gasket keeping away from the hole so as to not let the silicone to ooze out into the holes.
And when lowering the head into place, holding it up just enough to seat the push rods into the lifters and into the rocker cups.
I also put grease on the push rod tip that go into the rockers as it will hold them in place while lowering it down.
I made one mistake once and didn't double check that the push rods had seated and when I turned the engine over by hand a valve hit the piston and bent it.
Be careful the head studs don't scratch the new flame ring.
The silicone smear is the key to a leak free engine,,,as far as the head is concerned.
 
I stick a clipped short Q-tip in oil drain prior to smear of Hylomar then pull it out while moving it a bit so any excess sealant wiped away enough it won't clog drain to matter.
 
pierodn said:
Should I remove the head with the engine in place in the frame because there are oil leak by pushrods side.
This is the first time that I do this with the engine in place and hope there is enough space even for refit the head.
Do you have any suggestions or tips that I must follow?
Thank you.
Piero
Click to expand...
hi pierodn how bad is your oil leak? did you use a copper head gasket or composite ? if copper did you anneal it first? i do this even if the gasket is new,if its a composite how many miles have you done ? sometimes they get better after 500 plus miles and a re torque and as others have said make sure it can breath properly good luck with it,,,,,,,,,,,baz
 
When I was with N-V, my ride-to-work 650SS blew a head gasket. Admittedly, the engine was more vertical in the Featherbed frame than the Commando's is and the top tubes were more friendly, but it was relatively simple to remove the head and replace the gasket while the engine was in the frame.

From what I remember of the Commando layout (and it's 44 years ago since I last saw one!) it shouldn't be too difficult.
 
baz said:
pierodn said:
Should I remove the head with the engine in place in the frame because there are oil leak by pushrods side.
This is the first time that I do this with the engine in place and hope there is enough space even for refit the head.
Do you have any suggestions or tips that I must follow?
Thank you.
Piero
Click to expand...
hi pierodn how bad is your oil leak? did you use a copper head gasket or composite ? if copper did you anneal it first? i do this even if the gasket is new,if its a composite how many miles have you done ? sometimes they get better after 500 plus miles and a re torque and as others have said make sure it can breath properly good luck with it,,,,,,,,,,,baz
Click to expand...

Hi,
i use a composite gasket.
The bike has 10 miles (the engine is new made).
The bike mount the Jim Comnoz breather in the under oil plug side, i dont know if it breath properly: as i can chek if it breath?
Thank you.
Piero
 
Mick Hemmings recommends wellseal with composite head gasket.I have only done two with wellseal and retorque at about fifty miles and they have been good.
 
auldblue said:
Mick Hemmings recommends wellseal with composite head gasket.I have only done two with wellseal and retorque at about fifty miles and they have been good.
Click to expand...
Me too,
Composite and wellseal!
Ciao
Piero
 
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