Ready to Race Finally

acotrel · Oct 9, 2013

Something you might be interested in. - I was talking to a friend yesterday who has just returned from the Goodwood Revival where he rode an 86mm bore Manx. He mentioned that when they put their 92mm bore Molnar engined bike on methanol, it would pull from 2,000 RPM, rather than the previous 4,000 RPM. The bike they took to Goodwood was on petrol and fitted with the megaphone, and was much more difficult to ride. They found that the other manxes at Goodwood were 20 MPH faster, and the other guys kept their own fuel in the pits (against the rules) rather than using the choice of fuel supplied at the meeting.
http://www.drivingadventures.com.au/wha ... o-special/

72Combat · Oct 9, 2013

The class Mike and I are in is " Open Post Classic", that's anything over 500 cc to 1300cc ( thats not Japanese). Everything from a guy who just wants to go around the track on his Manx Norton to a team with a 800+ cc Trident running on meth. In a 6 lap race I get lapped.
I've dropped 6 seconds a lap off my times since I started racing 18 months ago with no mods to the bike.
Some competitors take it all very seriously but my mates and I are just out for a bit of fun, although saying that they are starting to tip some serious time and money into their uncompetitive bikes. :shock:
I'm going to run my BMW in pre 72 as they have a 'grandparenting' rule. Should be fun to see how it goes against the H2 and CB750's
Now that Mike has got us a covered pit with power, I'm going to drag the espresso machine along....

Brooking 850 · Oct 9, 2013

John, if you bring the coffee machine, I will bring the pods!!! Busy here in India
Regards Mike

72Combat · Oct 9, 2013

Pods? no mine is old skool and I have a grinder too. Some pastries would be nice. :roll:
Do you use rollers?
Us Beamers are press and go but Paul uses rollers with his Triumph..... funny thing, is powered with a Lucas battery :lol:

Matt Spencer · Oct 9, 2013

Been thinking you need a wireing loom with plugs on it Mike .

Then you can loosen it off & fine tune it , rideing to meetings .

Throw the lights of when you get there , and its chocks away . 8) :wink:

Brooking 850 · Oct 9, 2013

John , will have my pit roller with Optima 800 CCA which lasts all weekend, we had about 6 to 8 bikes using it all weekend last time out at Taupo.
Matt , like my creature comforts, so bike is trailered there with tools , camping seats and fuel!!! Not to mention pit roller starter C/w battery.
My bike has the most basic of wiring, don't need to clutter it.
Regards Mike

SteveA · Oct 10, 2013

Fast Eddie said:
I plan 34mm Mikunis on my 750 Short Stroke, but may go to 36mm Amal Smoothbores as I develop it. Some of the fastest Commando's I ever saw were Thruxton M/Cycles, circa '77, riden by Tony Smith/Tony Holland, they used 30mm ports and curved/tapered manifolds to 36mm at the MkII Amal, with very wide but fairly short bellmouths similar to those the Cosworth used. They had to be cut verticaly for clearance between each carb....

If you are restricted by rules, bore your 32mms to 33mm.....

Tony Smith lives near me. He still rides a Commando on the road. He's a top bloke, so modest, but so much history. He's the guy I got my 10.25:1 pistons from, that I mentioned in my raising CR thread!
FE.[/quote]

Eddie, Tony Smith had a farm in Brize Norton, some pictures of my Rickman show the works cut away timing cover and Lucas Rita ignition pick up I bought from him....late '76 I think, maybe '77

My wife comes from Bampton, so he was just down the road....some really really interesting Norton things in his workshop back then...wonder if he still has any of it?

Where are you located?

SteveA · Oct 10, 2013

acotrel said:
Something you might be interested in. - I was talking to a friend yesterday who has just returned from the Goodwood Revival where he rode an 86mm bore Manx. He mentioned that when they put their 92mm bore Molnar engined bike on methanol, it would pull from 2,000 RPM, rather than the previous 4,000 RPM. The bike they took to Goodwood was on petrol and fitted with the megaphone, and was much more difficult to ride. They found that the other manxes at Goodwood were 20 MPH faster, and the other guys kept their own fuel in the pits (against the rules) rather than using the choice of fuel supplied at the meeting.
http://www.drivingadventures.com.au/wha ... o-special/

You are infering they were using alcohol based fuel Alan, it is only allowed in certain bikes and if they were it is a big safety based no no under any ACU regulated competition without the fact being clear to all.....marking is required on the bike to warn marshalls.....

Mixures based on race fuels and Avgas are more likely.....

Fast Eddie · Oct 10, 2013

SteveA said:
Fast Eddie said:

I plan 34mm Mikunis on my 750 Short Stroke, but may go to 36mm Amal Smoothbores as I develop it. Some of the fastest Commando's I ever saw were Thruxton M/Cycles, circa '77, riden by Tony Smith/Tony Holland, they used 30mm ports and curved/tapered manifolds to 36mm at the MkII Amal, with very wide but fairly short bellmouths similar to those the Cosworth used. They had to be cut verticaly for clearance between each carb....

If you are restricted by rules, bore your 32mms to 33mm.....

Click to expand...

Tony Smith lives near me. He still rides a Commando on the road. He's a top bloke, so modest, but so much history. He's the guy I got my 10.25:1 pistons from, that I mentioned in my raising CR thread!
FE.

Eddie, Tony Smith had a farm in Brize Norton, some pictures of my Rickman show the works cut away timing cover and Lucas Rita ignition pick up I bought from him....late '76 I think, maybe '77

My wife comes from Bampton, so he was just down the road....some really really interesting Norton things in his workshop back then...wonder if he still has any of it?

Where are you located?[/quote]

Hi Steve,
I'm in Oxford, previously a little village near Burford. Tony still lives on the farm. The hi comp pistons I got from him were wrapped in 1976 news paper!!
Where are you based?
FE.

SteveA · Oct 10, 2013

Fast Eddie said:
Hi Steve,
I'm in Oxford, previously a little village near Burford. Tony still lives on the farm. The hi comp pistons I got from him were wrapped in 1976 news paper!!
Where are you based?
FE.

Worthing, but I work in Northern Italy at Aermacchi!

We don't get Oxford way much, and probably even less now that both of my in-laws have passed on. I am building a 750 Short Stroke and still need parts, if you think Tony might still have useful parts for sale?

Those pistons were Omega I guess. I had a set at 10.25 once, they were 77mm short stroke pistons but machined for standard gudgeon pins (short stroke pins were larger). Pistons not much good to me as I have Jim Schmitt rods and pistons, but all sorts of stuff would be of interest, small parts add up. Or even just to say hello.

Steve

Fast Eddie · Oct 10, 2013

SteveA said:
Fast Eddie said:

Hi Steve,
I'm in Oxford, previously a little village near Burford. Tony still lives on the farm. The hi comp pistons I got from him were wrapped in 1976 news paper!!
Where are you based?
FE.

Click to expand...

Worthing, but I work in Northern Italy at Aermacchi!

We don't get Oxford way much, and probably even less now that both of my in-laws have passed on. I am building a 750 Short Stroke and still need parts, if you think Tony might still have useful parts for sale?

Those pistons were Omega I guess. I had a set at 10.25 once, they were 77mm short stroke pistons but machined for standard gudgeon pins (short stroke pins were larger). Pistons not much good to me as I have Jim Schmitt rods and pistons, but all sorts of stuff would be of interest, small parts add up. Or even just to say hello.

Steve

PM sent Steve.

acotrel · Oct 10, 2013

SteveA, I'm not suggesting they were using methanol. Probably Elf racing fuel. Doesn't matter anyway - back in history the Brits could always get their manxes going faster on petrol than we could on methanol. I don't know why methanol is banned on safety grounds - fire with it emits much less heat, and it doesn't have benzene in it like most petrol. I've never raced without it except once when I rode a Suzuki Cobra (and won ! ?). In my Seeley 850 it is lovely.

I think the best thing about methanol is that you can be a bit off with your tuning, and the motor will still be quick. However to get the most out of it, it is as difficult to tune as petrol. I don't know how the guys get Amals tuned right on petrol with those crude needles they use ? Have you ever tried fitting the appropriate Mikuni needles to your Amal carburettors ? If you go through the specs looking for the Mikuni needles used in Japanese two strokes, it is clear the answer is not 'one size fits all'.

Fast Eddie · Oct 10, 2013

acotrel said:
SteveA, I'm not suggesting they were using methanol. Probably Elf racing fuel. Doesn't matter anyway - back in history the Brits could always get their manxes going faster on petrol than we could on methanol. I don't know why methanol is banned on safety grounds - fire with it emits much less heat, and it doesn't have benzene in it like most petrol. I've never raced without it except once when I rode a Suzuki Cobra (and won ! ?). In my Seeley 850 it is lovely.

I think the best thing about methanol is that you can be a bit off with your tuning, and the motor will still be quick. However to get the most out of it, it is as difficult to tune as petrol. I don't know how the guys get Amals tuned right on petrol with those crude needles they use ? Have you ever tried fitting the appropriate Mikuni needles to your Amal carburettors ? If you go through the specs looking for the Mikuni needles used in Japanese two strokes, it is clear the answer is not 'one size fits all'.

My understanding of the safety issue meaning methanol is banned, is due to the fact the when it burns (when a bike has crashed and is on fire... Not internal combustion) the flames are not visible, and some marshals have burned injured in the past due to this. That was the explanation given to me anyhow.
FE.

SteveA · Oct 11, 2013

Fast Eddie said:
My understanding of the safety issue meaning methanol is banned, is due to the fact the when it burns (when a bike has crashed and is on fire... Not internal combustion) the flames are not visible, and some marshals have burned injured in the past due to this. That was the explanation given to me anyhow.
FE.

That i sexactly my understanding of it too....some bad car incidents with it in the '70s too, burning drivers trapped in sports cars....

jseng1 · Oct 11, 2013

My understanding of the safety issue meaning methanol is banned, is due to the fact the when it burns (when a bike has crashed and is on fire... Not internal combustion) the flames are not visible, and some marshals have burned injured in the past due to this. That was the explanation given to me anyhow.
FE.

The best fuel is 75% methanol and 25% race gas. You get the best of everything. The bike runs cooler with HI compression and there is still some color to the flame for safety. The gas also prevents corrosion. I used it when m pumped up 850 monoshock was overheating in the Calif heat.

acotrel · Oct 11, 2013

Jim, how much acetone did you have to add to get the mixtute to blend ?

72Combat · Oct 27, 2013

Well, the Barry Sheene has been and gone here in New Zealand after a steller weekend of classic and post classic racing. Sadly our Trans Tasman friends went home without the trophy.... but keen to win it back at Eastern Creek next March.
Here is a pic of Mike with his very tasty Commando. ( sorry about the crap phone shot...)

with his 65 BHP he quickly left me and the 50 HP BMW in his wake.... :cry:
Saturday consisted of 1 round of practice and qualifying and 2 races, Sunday 2 races. I entered two classes so had 2 rounds of practice/qualifying and 4 races on Saturday and 4 today....quite tiring.
I'd packed up before realizing there was a last 'invite' race, but I got a couple of seconds of Mike flying past the start line.

I had an app on my phone and I was doing about 105 mph at this point so Mike was probably doing about 110.

acotrel · Oct 27, 2013

Perhaps you might need more tight corners ?

jseng1 · Oct 27, 2013

jseng1 said:
My understanding of the safety issue meaning methanol is banned, is due to the fact the when it burns (when a bike has crashed and is on fire... Not internal combustion) the flames are not visible, and some marshals have burned injured in the past due to this. That was the explanation given to me anyhow.
FE.

Click to expand...

The best fuel is 75% methanol and 25% race gas. You get the best of everything. The bike runs cooler with HI compression and there is still some color to the flame for safety. The gas also prevents corrosion. I used it when m pumped up 850 monoshock was overheating in the Calif heat.

75% methanol and 25% race gas blends just fine. More than 30% gas and the gas starts to fall out of suspension. Found by experimentation.

jseng1 · Oct 27, 2013

The 75% methanol 25% gas mix Takes about 150% to twice as much fuel as straight gas and the timing needs to be retarded about 10% or so.

Ready to Race Finally

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