question of the application of factory paint (74 candy apple red)

pretty sure i understand the candy process - base silver, translucent red top or mid-coat, silver pin stripes, and Norton/commando 850 labels, and then...

the question - did the factory apply a coat of clear over the pinstriping, before or after the Norton/commando script? positive I have the original paint, but it does appear to have a coat of clear over the pinstriping. trying to determine if that is factory or not? second question - I know the pin strip was hand painted, but was it applied using some sort of stencil, or outline tape, free hand (have my doubts - too perfect), or what???

I don't think they did. If they did, it may have been clear lacquer, which is not as durable as more modern products. I believe originals were freehanded by someone with a steady hand and a modicum of artistic talent.

These pinstripes (shown before logo stickers) were hand-pulled by a talented young man from Georgia by the name of Chastin Brand. As far as I could tell, both sides were exactly the same.

here's a few detail shots of my pin stripping. it is hand painted - if that's the case, by one, very talented person. it is cleared over the pin stripes, and from the crazing, it appears to be very old clear. 45 years ago, lacquer was pretty much the standard. trying to determine if someone shot a coat of clear after the fact or it was factory applied.







in the above pic, it appears that the end is very thin - like it's been over polished. I wouldn't think that's original, but well polished and then cleared. kind of puzzled....

I have an old original damaged Candy red side cover that came off my Mk2 850 in the mid '70s, it is still covered in gravel rash where it went sliding down the road, but is factory Candy Red with the remains of silver pinstripes, I have run my finger over the stripe but can feel no edge so possibly clear coated, the 850 commando is "raised individual lettered" probably a factory decal, I happily post a photo but I am not a VIP member.

possm said:

I have an old original damaged Candy red side cover that came off my Mk2 850 in the mid '70s, it is still covered in gravel rash where it went sliding down the road, but is factory Candy Red with the remains of silver pinstripes, I have run my finger over the stripe but can feel no edge so possibly clear coated, the 850 commando is "raised individual lettered" probably a factory decal, I happily post a photo but I am not a VIP member.

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thanks - not sure you have to be a VIP member. you need to upload your photos to a imaging service (I use (free) postimage.org) from there you can use the image feature above.

My original paint had the logos & pins under the clear. The irregularities in the metal were filled & smoothed over with white lead which used to be quite common for extra fine body finish. I wish I had tested the paint, lightly sanded & just applied new clear lacquer.
Depending on the shade you wish your CAR to be you can use a silver or gold base. Silver will give a lighter more bright shade while gold gives a more deep shade.

I do not believe the 850 fuel tanks and side covers had the same paint treatments.

I had an original paint 850 Interstate tank and the pinstripes weren't lacquered over. Triumphs I've had have been the same.

Original Mk3 Roaster tank gold on black, Norton Decal, hand painted pinstripe, no lacquer.

wondering if it had anything to do with the color? solid vs. candy vs. metalflake - ???

in my case, I'm on the fence whether a previous owner applied a coat of clear or not. I've examined the tank carefully, and can't see any signs pointing one way or another. if it was done, it happened many years ago. thanks everyone for the input.

edit - went out to the garage and re-examined the Norton and Commando 850 lettering. the lettering doesn't show any signs of having been cleared, especially at the edge line transition, so any clear would have to been done before the script/lettering application. still not 100% sure, but starting to lean toward a factory clear.

When I worked at Longbridge and later Cowley in the mid 80's the decals were applied to the cars as the last step i.e. after the body had been painted and then run down the assembly line. The decals were fixed onto the car body on a special line, no clear or lacquer was applied and then final inspection and straight to sales. This included all the Mini and Metro special editions and the later SD1 Vitesse etc.

Hand painted stripes, silver vinyl decals, no clear.

I started painting in the mid 70's and acrylic lacquer was the paint of choice back then. DuPont and R-M were the top US brands. Clears were very brittle and would crack or craze especially if applied over a raised surface like a decal.

Lacquers became unobtainium due to EPA regulations on VOC's and I don't miss them. Modern polyester/urethane BCC formulas are far more durable.

I can't say anything except that I know the guy I bought mine from and he didn't repaint and it was a sprayed lacquer clear which was weather beaten. None of it means a thing since I never saw the bike new.
The newer acrylic lacquers will cover them but just don't have the same depth and clarity. Set faster and try to carry tiny bubbles also..... not much to like in the way they go down IMO. They have covered the decals without cracking though, but the clear was laid in continuous coat until it was pretty heavy(just short of sagging)and then normal successive coats applied.
Goldwing = Urethane

kommando said:

Original Mk3 Roaster tank gold on black, Norton Decal, hand painted pinstripe, no lacquer.

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original factory black 850 paint ,no clear

one for sale here
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/mcy/d/cambridge-1974-norton-commando-850/7100417898.html

So much for 42 year old memory because that was my paint. No tank stripes now & everything is under clear. So be it. I be edjimikated now.

jimbo said:

one for sale here
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/mcy/d/cambridge-1974-norton-commando-850/7100417898.html

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there are some great photo's there (thanks jimbo) - plenty of "original" detail - DEFINETELY not cleared. question - is that truely a 74 as stated - maybe a very early 74? from a noobie standpoint, i'd say a 73 - ??? still wondering if the clear is a color related thing - candy unique, but maylar, jimbo (and a few others) say no. one thing I must mention, most of my 74's history prior to 2006 is unknown to me. i can't honestly say how many prior owners there actually were. I'm assuming a lot, so anything could be possible.



one thing, for a bike that "never been tipped," sure like to know what happened to that footpeg….

Pegs are pretty tough. Maybe not a tip, though something could have hit it pretty hard. I shan't suffer foot in mouth again without careful thought... Mine had a fall begin the process, which didn't show until it abruptly dropped off while riding a year later. Found rust beginning halfway through and the fresh break... memory good there because almost broke my leg & ruined a boot.

jbruney said:

Pegs are pretty tough. Maybe not a tip, though something could have hit it pretty hard. I shan't suffer foot in mouth again without careful thought... Mine had a fall begin the process, which didn't show until it abruptly dropped off while riding a year later. Found rust beginning halfway through and the fresh break... memory good there because almost broke my leg & ruined a boot.

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don't sweat the "foot in mouth" thing - sometimes I think I suffer from stage 4, terminal, foot in mouth....

starting to do a bit of research -- doesn't prove anything, SO TAKE IT FWIW - found this -- "The "candy apple red" is not just the name of a color, it is also implies a specific paint process for cars and other objects: The phrase candy apple red, describes a very specific paint process first used on custom cars and hot rods sometime in the early 1950s (date not specified) - per audio interview with Joe Bailon, candy apple red, inventor, https://web.archive.org/web/20170321173444/http://www.legends.thewwbc.net/gpage187.html. In the candy apple red paint process, the body of the car or other object to be painted must be finished as perfectly as possible to avoid easily visible problems in the finished paint. After the body is properly prepared, primer is applied as usual. Then a highly reflective metallic paint is applied first. This is usually highly reflective silver paint, but the color effect can be modified by using metallic gold or other tinted metallic paint. The key with this first metallic color layer is to reflect as much light as possible. The candy apple red paint is applied on top of the reflective metallic paint. This candy apple red paint is transparent. Many coats are required to achieve the proper appearance-of-depth and richness-of-color. Once the candy apple red color reaches the proper appearance of depth and color intensity, multiple coats of clear paint are applied to protect the paint job and add to the feeling of depth of the paint. Candy Apple Red appears so intense, because light passes through the paint, reflects off of the metallic base color, and passes through the paint a second time before we see the color. This causes real candy apple red paint to look far more intense and attractive than conventional paints..."

it may be as i suspect, the clear is something unique to the Norton CAR color - ??? HOWEVER, not sure if the factory would have applied the pinstriping before the clear. would make sense to me to complete the CAR process and application, and only then the pinstripes and script/logos. who knows who did what 45 years ago....