Question about Brexit

Eljahara said:
I have worked all my adult life since leaving university - I come from a working class background, brought up on a council estate with both parents working - dad in a factory and mum at home sewing leather goods on an industrial machine located in the kitchen. I was brought up with a strong work ethic but also with ambition and aspiration - the first in my family to go to University, my parents wanting more for me than manual labour. I have worked as a teacher since 1984 holding many different roles including head teacher, I have always paid my bills and mortgage, contributed my share of tax and N.I. I have saved, paid my mortgage and receive a decent pension and I am financially comfortable - all of which makes me an enemy of the Labour Party - which I have voted for since I Was 18.
Not living in council or rented accommodation, having disposable income etc leads the momentum supported Jeremy Corbyn to consider me as “one of the rich!”
Until Corbyn and momentum go, the Labour Party is not a party of the aspirational worker
John
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i have worked 40 years as a,contractor in the oil industry and my father was a fairly well off farmer
but i bet you were a member of a teachers union and were willing to take the wages and conditions that they fought for !
thats what im trying to say about corbin
i think its all hpye stirred up with the tabloids

on the other hand how about Priti Patel doing private deals with the Israelies
and now preaching about crime
Fast Eddie said:
Desmo, its comments like your last line which make you sound far more emotional than you are logical.

Westminster is to blame for everything? Bit of a sweeping statement.

And you do realise that Scotland is represented in Westminster ?

And whilst we’re discussing being anti Scottish, my mother is Scottish, so I’m not guilty there either!
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Fast Eddie said:
Desmo, its comments like your last line which make you sound far more emotional than you are logical.

Westminster is to blame for everything? Bit of a sweeping statement.

And you do realise that Scotland is represented in Westminster ?

And whilst we’re discussing being anti Scottish, my mother is Scottish, so I’m not guilty there either!
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ha ha il have to have a word with her and to get you converted to an Honary Jacobite
 
trident sam said:
Germany and France are failed states as they failed to protect their citizens in the 2nd world war.
Without the USA,Germany , France us and the rest of Europe would still not have recovered.
They damned well owe us their freedom .
I've never voted Tory in my life, I'm from Liverpool for God's sake and it's not allowed there, and believe me I despised Thatcher as much as you.
I've been a union member all my working life , first in the AEU when working in heavy industry and then the FBU for thirty years.
Corbyn is a no choice, he is just a professional protester .
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my Grandad was an artillery gunner in ww1 and lived to tell the tale
my gran got up at a public meeting to protest about men being needlesly slaughtered an got locked up for being a comunist sypmathiser
war is never a good thing

ps winston churchill was a liberal mp
in Dundee before the war but he got chased out
 
desmo said:
thats what im trying to say about corbin
i think its all hpye stirred up with the tabloids
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I have to agree with Fast Eddie here, Corbyn has always been anti establishment and he considers the EU to be the establishment of establishments. For him to be a credible leader he would have to go against his own beliefs.
Yes I agree with you re unions, unfortunately the discussion about JC is not about that. The Labour Party have always “fought” for the rights of working people but the current Labour Party does not reflect the heritage that we appear to share.
If you have had a successful career, own your house and have a little in the bank then Momentum consider you to be the privileged elite, they do not stop to ask how you got there, whether you paid a mortgage for 25/30 years, worked two jobs so your wife could give up work to look after your children, paid your dues as expected..... No, you are now the problem that needs to be removed - that is the reality of the Labour Party today and Corbyn supports that belief.
 
I was a middle manager for most of my working life and had to tolerate unionism. I recognise it as a legitimate expression of industrial democracy, however there are alternatives. We can move away from adversarialism by properly addressing employee share ownership programmes, productivity gain sharing and documented and audited management systems. Our problem is that some people profit very well from the status quo. ISO45000 (OHS Management Systems) has now come into existence. If it is called-up in free trade agreements, sweat shops in third world countries might find life more difficult. Our Australian politicians do not seem to really understand the game in which they are involved. They sign us up to free trade agreements which contain Investor State Dispute Provisions which undermine sovereignty by enabling local laws to be by-passed by international corporations.
 
The British hold the answer to globalisation in their own hands. It started with British Standard BS4891 - their own quality standard which was the basis of ISO 9000, ISO 14000 and ISO 45000. They are the key, when they are called-up in free trade agreements.
 
jbruney said:
If the leaders don't represent the people oust them at the polls.... You can see how well it works here. Once in every sheepdog becomes a wolf. They just can't resist power and money.... If you could remove those from the equation politicians could perhaps do a proper job, or if they were given the gibbet for their crimes against the people. I'm 100% certain after one or two swing the others soon become virtuous men.
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hence the tory turn coats not standing. they know they will be handed their arses on a platter. devious horrible self serving people. the lot of them. disgusting how they have denied the will of a democratic vote!
 
desmo said:
the majority of us jocks voted to stay in the EU
as for sovereignty we had a queen a while back in history but you lot chopped her head off
couldnt even do that properly ha ha
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let us vote in your referendum. you'll get independence then. you vote in Westminster but we can't vote in Holyrood?
 
desmo said:
the majority of us jocks voted to stay in the EU
as for sovereignty we had a queen a while back in history but you lot chopped her head off
couldnt even do that properly ha ha
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trouble is. when a neck is made of brass.... it's a bit hard to cut
 
It is a strange old world. I worked half my life with my hands and half with my brain. I used my brain to work for the pubic sector which had the best overall payout. But as one old guy told me when I left the honest working world "I see you are trading lung cancer for A-hole cancer" and he was correct. 20 years in civil service was an eye opener. No wonder we are in such a mess.
Well you swim in the water in which you find yourself. All political parties are crime syndicates, all government is about fleecing the citizens and
all civil servants grow a thick skin, suck it up and fade away at then end with their solid pensions.
How else do you think I can afford those bikes in the garage?
 
Remember, the UK was not the only country that voted to leave. Holland had a referendum but it was non-binding, so they had to stay. Maybe they could just see what the UK public could, we do not want to be part of a corrupt Europe. France is broke, it has sold out on its car industry now, and guess who will be paying - the only ones that can, the Germans. As for exporting to France, try it, and see what response you get, suddenly you might find that a French firm has been subsidised to to produce the parts you wanted to send there. They have negotiated protection for their industry and the rest of the EU muppets agreed to it.
I have always had a feeling that we will not leave europe by the the time it has fallen apart at the seams.
 
The bottom line for me is that the EU, at its very core, is flawed.

“Ever greater unity” is the core of the EU project.

Not ‘some unity’ or ‘more unity’ or ‘XYZ unity’ but EVER GREATER... until it is one big country.

But... one big EU country just isn’t possible, the ‘real’ countries that make up Europe are far too culturally diverse for one government to ever work. Democratic agreement will be impossible.

Even today, in several European Countries, there are regions demanding independence from their ‘historical’ Motherland. How can people simultaneously demand independence and then accept ‘ever greater unity’? The two are diametrically apposed.

It just does not make sense.

A European Economic Community (EEC) made perfect sense. A European community driven through economic ties, meaning mutual benefit AND dependency is all Europe needs to maintain healthy ties and a healthy community. And I strongly predict that is exactly what the EU will revert to... but it’ll get messy before that happens, as the arch protagonists at the centre of the EU will fight to the bitter end... whatever the cost.

Currently the EU is effectively held together by state bribes, in the form of grants, and no one wants to bite the hand that feeds.

This whole topic is about MUCH more than just Brexit. The only reason Brexit is such a big deal is that Britain was the first to say “we don’t quite like this, we’d like to propose some changes” and were uncompromisingly told to f*ck off! The result: Brexit.

No, Brexit is the symptom of the issue, it is NOT the issue itself.

The EU is flawed, and I have always said... Europe does not need the EU. Period!
 
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I see the bottom line as loss of the ability of the citizen to affect political decisions. EU parliament has no teeth and is about the same as the Roman Senate under the empire. Looks good does naught. But fewer people in the west are interested in being informed and intelligent citizens. They
are only interested keeping the cash flow into their particular pocket.
National governments look out for themselves. The Germans and the French are the big dogs and the rest get scraps. UK is useful to them because
it coughs up a lot of tax money and sucks up a lot of exports from these two countries without that much reciprocity.
Prediction? Fake brexit. Smoke and mirrors no flames. Sad but there you are.
 
you vote in every election and referendum. Let us vote on Scottish independence. You'll get it then. Oh and no more free prescriptions, university and all the other numerous benefits paid for by the union. £1600 per capita spent above the outlay in England? In general I love the scots. But, then you get the whiners who think. He has more than me. It's not fair
 
freddie1105 said:
you vote in every election and referendum. Let us vote on Scottish independence. You'll get it then. Oh and no more free prescriptions, university and all the other numerous benefits paid for by the union. £1600 per capita spent above the outlay in England? In general I love the scots. But, then you get the whiners who think. He has more than me. It's not fair
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Small price to pay for having fought all Britain's wars.
 
Danno said:
Small price to pay for having fought all Britain's wars.
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so they are britains wars? not Englands? In other words. it was their war too. we owe nothing. It's always Englands fault . Every now and then you get someone piping up with no idea. The only reason the I.R.A. kept fighting so long was because of New Yorkers thinking they are still Irish. lets talk about native americans!
 
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