Protect yourself

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In the American Civil War (an oxymoron if ever there was), for every soldier killed in battle, three died from disease..... In Burma 1943, from the 14th Army fighting the Japanese, General William Slim wrote: 'for every man evacuated with wounds we had one hundred and twenty evacuated sick,'

Flies spread diseases.... Keep yours buttoned.
 
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My Grandfather escaped the Germans at Dunkirk and survived fighting the Japanese in Burma.

It was the roll-ups (cigarettes) that killed him in his early 70s

Take care
 

Fast Eddie

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My Grandfather escaped the Germans at Dunkirk and survived fighting the Japanese in Burma.

It was the roll-ups (cigarettes) that killed him in his early 70s

Take care
Well, let’s be honest, that’s what you get for rolling fags.

(Queue a mixture of contempt and confusion from our Trans Atlantic cousins…;) )
 
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Life's a lottery.

My Great Aunt was in bed at her home in Dublin in 1941 and got killed by a German bomb.
 

Tornado

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I wonder if the virus is not mutating to become less deadly, the reality is the vaccinations and previous infections are the real reason for the apparent reduction in its ability to kill.

I have heard that the common cold would be deadly to populations that don't normally live with it, don't know if that is true.
It is generally correct that a virus evolves toward whatever maximizes its persistence in nature. If it rapidly kills the host before it can leap to other hosts in significant numbers, that virus pop will not be as successful as one that can co-exist in host while actively leaping to new hosts over prolonged time periods. Reaching this point of higher persistence, lower host impact, can take hugely differing times, completely depends on nature of the virus, its mutation rate and natural properties, plus the selective pressures on it applied by the hosts defenses and the environmental conditions.

Ebola is not normally found in humans. It has an animal source, thought to be bats. It does not cause death in bats, just low level disease ("sub clinical" is the term for it). This is because it has evloved over eons to co-exist in the bat. If it gets into humans, severe disease, the with deaths around 50-70% of cases. It can spread between humans via close contact with contaminated body fluids. Could it ever evolve to a less deadly form in humans? Potentially, but you would need millions of transfer events between humans before this could happen. That means a whole lot of deaths.
 
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it would be interesting to see how many anti vaccine enthusiasts would continue with that line if a virus gets going with 30 % mortality rate.
 

Tornado

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The native northern and southern populations pre Columbus have no immunity, colds and flu ran rampant after the North European's arrived and caused many deaths. There are theories made by historians that the conquests by small European armies were made easier due to the population falls.
Actually colds and flu (influzenza virus) are ubiquitous globally because they are present in natural animal populations like birds, which of course have large global migration ranges. The native americans suffered huge losses from a human carried virus, no animal reservoir,, smallpox. They had no previous exposures to it and it was highly infectious via close contact with infected people. Not nearly as deadly in those pop's with long history of herd exposure, but it was still a horrible thing to have even then. Terribly painful with life long scarring over much of the skin surface.
We fully defeated this scourge of humanity in the early 1970's by, guess what? Vaccination of some 95% of global population. Nearly everyone over age of 50 has the innoculation marks usually on upper arm where vaccine was scratched into the skin.
 

gortnipper

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Actually colds and flu (influzenza virus) are ubiquitous globally because they are present in natural animal populations like birds, which of course have large global migration ranges. The native americans suffered huge losses from a human carried virus, no animal reservoir,, smallpox. They had no previous exposures to it and it was highly infectious via close contact with infected people. Not nearly as deadly in those pop's with long history of herd exposure, but it was still a horrible thing to have even then. Terribly painful with life long scarring over much of the skin surface.
We fully defeated this scourge of humanity in the early 1970's by, guess what? Vaccination of some 95% of global population. Nearly everyone over age of 50 has the innoculation marks usually on upper arm where vaccine was scratched into the skin.
And we queued up at primary school to get it.
 

JCP

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I'm glad I didn't buy her ticket!!!

(Apologies if that's in poor taste.... Just shades of Milligan in that story)
I'm glad I didn't buy her ticket!!!

(Apologies if that's in poor taste.... Just shades of Milligan in that story)
Hilarious!

Here’s one: “Chopsticks are one of the reasons the Chinese never invented custard.”

Hail Milligan!
 

KiwiShane

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Shane, as far as I can recall, no one here is saying the vaccines NEVER produce clots.

They do. You’re right. It’s a sad fact.

But the risk is simply MUCH lower. Like most things in life, it’s a risk balance question, just like we motorcyclists make every ride.

Until you can show a viable study that show the risk of the vaccine is greater than the risk of the virus, your argument is moot.

Maybe you missed another source of this same article posted earlier:

Note, the article is only comparing CLOT risk between the vaccine and the virus. Clearly, this is no where near the primary cause of death from the virus!

key point of the article is this: “The study found that the AstraZeneca jab was associated with excess cases of thrombocytopenia, or low levels of blood-clotting platelets, with 107 additional cases per 10 million people. But the figure for those infected with the virus was 934”.

So yes, the vaccine casued 107 clots per 10 million people. Note, they didn’t all die, but even if we assume they did, that would mean that if every man, women, child, baby in the U.K. was vaccinated the vaccine would kill around 726 people from clots. Which is bad. We’d all agree.

But, and it’s a big but…

To date, the U.K. has had 132,000 covid deaths and counting. It’s estimated the vaccines have prevented over 100,000 deaths to date.

So, without the vaccines we’d be looking at a minimum of a quarter of a million deaths in the U.K. alone by the end of this year… half a million by the end of next year… I’m not sure where to stop so let’s just stop here.

So the risk balance is as simple as this:

Maximum therotical number killed by the vaccine caused clots in U.K. = 726.
vs
Probable number killed by the virus up to end next year in U.K. = 500,000.

Thats why we’re all struggling to join your cause. It’s not that your outright wrong, you’re right, the vaccines are not 100% safe. But you are simply not looking at the whole picture, you are not looking at what would happen if everyone followed your idea.
I'm not a traditional type vaccine anti vaxer ...what has concerned me is the repercussions from using this experimental approach to this virus when there are far safer alternatives and NO they are not used exclusively for cattle such as Ivermectin...Artemisinin...Hydroxychloroquine ..etc
Chinese Government officials are currently using Artremisinin to rapidly combat cv19 "TO PROTECT YOURSELF"
Which I'm happy to show you the cellular make up of this medicine that has been used for decades by the Chinese people....anyways...
Have a listen to this clip to what really concerns many people right now like myself

 

KiwiShane

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Shane, as far as I can recall, no one here is saying the vaccines NEVER produce clots.

They do. You’re right. It’s a sad fact.

But the risk is simply MUCH lower. Like most things in life, it’s a risk balance question, just like we motorcyclists make every ride.

Until you can show a viable study that show the risk of the vaccine is greater than the risk of the virus, your argument is moot.

Maybe you missed another source of this same article posted earlier:

Note, the article is only comparing CLOT risk between the vaccine and the virus. Clearly, this is no where near the primary cause of death from the virus!

key point of the article is this: “The study found that the AstraZeneca jab was associated with excess cases of thrombocytopenia, or low levels of blood-clotting platelets, with 107 additional cases per 10 million people. But the figure for those infected with the virus was 934”.

So yes, the vaccine casued 107 clots per 10 million people. Note, they didn’t all die, but even if we assume they did, that would mean that if every man, women, child, baby in the U.K. was vaccinated the vaccine would kill around 726 people from clots. Which is bad. We’d all agree.

But, and it’s a big but…

To date, the U.K. has had 132,000 covid deaths and counting. It’s estimated the vaccines have prevented over 100,000 deaths to date.

So, without the vaccines we’d be looking at a minimum of a quarter of a million deaths in the U.K. alone by the end of this year… half a million by the end of next year… I’m not sure where to stop so let’s just stop here.

So the risk balance is as simple as this:

Maximum therotical number killed by the vaccine caused clots in U.K. = 726.
vs
Probable number killed by the virus up to end next year in U.K. = 500,000.

Thats why we’re all struggling to join your cause. It’s not that your outright wrong, you’re right, the vaccines are not 100% safe. But you are simply not looking at the whole picture, you are not looking at what would happen if everyone followed your idea.
Hi Eddy the reccomended gene therapy injections are heavily controlled by big phama who have invested interest in these products one way or another.
For me personally my partner and I have been sick ...my partner far worse
New Zealand has a reported 23 deaths from covid and 1 officially reported death from the Pfizer shot while annually we have 500 deaths from Asian type flu which there is a traditional vaccine available from you local G.P Which I reccomend old folk should take to limit their risk...
Those flu numbers basically disappeared from our data bases last year from New Zealand and Australia which probably attribute from boarder closure.. social distancing and people being more aware of people at present to be or look unwell.
These repurposed medications (like many) are very very cheap and put big pharma out of business ...anyways..

Artemisinin as I mentioned
 

ntst8

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Shane it is dissappointing that you continue to post this unmitigated rubbish and embarrasing the a fellow kiwi has been sucked into believing what is so obviously conspiracy theory tripe. I hope you oneday make a recovery but in the meantime, not that it will mean much, but you are now the deserving recipient of my first and i hope only Ignore award.
 

gortnipper

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Shane it is dissappointing that you continue to post this unmitigated rubbish and embarrasing the a fellow kiwi has been sucked into believing what is so obviously conspiracy theory tripe. I hope you oneday make a recovery but in the meantime, not that it will mean much, but you are now the deserving recipient of my first and i hope only Ignore award.
In France tripe is a delicacy. :)
 

KiwiShane

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Shane it is dissappointing that you continue to post this unmitigated rubbish and embarrasing the a fellow kiwi has been sucked into believing what is so obviously conspiracy theory tripe. I hope you oneday make a recovery but in the meantime, not that it will mean much, but you are now the deserving recipient of my first and i hope only Ignore award.
 

KiwiShane

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Shane it is dissappointing that you continue to post this unmitigated rubbish and embarrasing the a fellow kiwi has been sucked into believing what is so obviously conspiracy theory tripe. I hope you oneday make a recovery but in the meantime, not that it will mean much, but you are now the deserving recipient of my first and i hope only Ignore award.
CHOICE ...The one word I took from your dribble was "Obviously"
 
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