Pazon Ign. V Boyer Micro digital

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Torontonian said:
So is my new Micro MK IV a digital black box or not ? The instructions do not say. It does say that standard coils are fine to use.
Click to expand...

Go to Boyers website, look up the box model number found on the system box, open the instructions, should tell you what primary coil resistance is recommended.

Your Micro MK IV may be well new, and new to you, but have been around for years, not real easy to get in the states.

Boyer Micro-Power EIs fire the coils at the appropriate ignition time; they have (or use) small low ohm coil(s). The Micro Digital EIs charge the coils, which fire when the charging current is interrupted, they like 3 ohms of primary resistance.
 
Thanks. I'll use the MK IV Micro , the stock 6V Lucas coils , and the new 5 Ohm caps and copper core HT leads that I have. 1976 MK III.
 
Torontonian said:
Thanks. I'll use the MK IV Micro , the stock 6V Lucas coils , and the new 5 Ohm caps and copper core HT leads that I have. 1976 MK III.
Click to expand...

You might also consider going to resistor plugs (but not both resistor plugs and resistor caps) if ya wanna keep yer old caps for some reason.
 
Resistor plugs will do the job, but are, typically, hard to find when you need one (both). With the resistor caps your choices are broader.
 
I have just changed from a Boyer system to a Pazon Surefire. I changed the coils for brand new pvl’s, new leads and caps and fitted an Alton starter.
My thoughts are:
With the starter it fires and runs every time bar one as soon as the starter turned. The only Tim it didn’t run immediately was when warm, once possibly my own fault.
It runs without fault.
It is well documented how the Boyer system can struggle with low voltage, I have witnessed this first hand.
My understanding is that the Pazon is very similar to the Boyer with some modifications.
I personally wouldn’t go back. Only had the Pazon for one summer season.
 
I have just finished rebuilding a T******* T160 which came with an old Analogue Mk 3 Boyer, and it just isn't interested in starting on the button (spins up like a champ), but fires up right away with only a half-hearted swing on the kickstart.
I contacted Boyer asking if the Mk 4 unit would resolve the issue:

My question:
I've just completed a T160 fitted with a Mk 3 ignition, and it won't
start via the electrc starter, but is an easy first kick runner every
time on the kickstart.
I understand that this is likely to be due to susceptibility to voltage
depression caused by the electric start (new Motobatt battery showing
12.7V under no-load).
Would fitting a Mk4 black box overcome this, and can you supply one
separately?

Response:
Thank you for your enquiry, check the magnets on the magnetic rotor run inside the poles of the stator plate, if not cut a Coke tin to make a aluminium shim to go over the taper on the rotor, this will bring it out a little.
This will reduce the speed the engine has to turn to trigger the ignition.
The Mk4 ignition box will be better as it has a internal voltage back up for the main electronics.
You can try running the ignition box directly from the battery to see if this improves the electric starting..
Check the voltage at the ignition box between the red and white wires when cranking.
Check all your earths back to the battery, a good heavy cable from just by the electric starter to the battery is worthwhile, if still running posative earth its worth changing to negative and fitting one of our power box 00108 regulator s in place of the rectifier and zener diode.
And fit LED bulbs were you can.
If you require any spares contact us at sales@boyerbransden.com or phone 01622730939

So there you go - could be anything ;)
I have to credit them for being very prompt with the reply.

I think LAB's previous post was way more helpful!
 
B-Bogus. Very likely that using the starter is drawing down system voltage; there are two upper level considerations that have an impact.

1) Wiring harness: If your wiring harness is the original then I recommend disconnecting and re-making all connections while checking for corrosion and loose fit, both can be corrected, however, if you see blackened copper wire trailing off behind the terminations your efforts to reduce high resistance connections won't be totally fruitful.

2) Starter: The starter's armature may have excessive clearance in the bushings that it depends on for grounding (earthing); older BMWs frequently suffer from this; fortunately for them is that the bushings are readily available from Bosch. Also, the high current wires for the starter appear to have been minimally specified (gauge too small), many vendors sell kits with substantially larger gauge wires. I make mine from stripping a pigtail designed for an electric stove, much less expensive than buying the wire by the foot. I noticed that Old Britts offers a 4 gauge wire set. In any case new wires will help put more power to the starter with less system drain.

Best wishes.
 
B+Bogus said:
I have just finished rebuilding a T******* T160 which came with an old Analogue Mk 3 Boyer, and it just isn't interested in starting on the button (spins up like a champ), but fires up right away with only a half-hearted swing on the kickstart.
Click to expand...

Are you sure the white/blue WU wire that would originally have connected the starter relay 'C4' terminal to the coils side of the ballast (now removed?) has been disconnected (preferably at both ends)? If WU is not disconnected there would be no sparks during starter motor operation.

Are the coils 6V? The Boyer triple EI is expected to work with the original T160 6V coils connected in series so each coil is getting about 4V. The Pazon triple EI (Altair) kit for instance, uses three 3V coils (0.5 ohm so not suitable for use with a Boyer).
 
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B+Bogus said:
check the magnets on the magnetic rotor run inside the poles of the stator plate, if not cut a Coke tin to make a aluminium shim to go over the taper on the rotor, this will bring it out a little.This will reduce the speed the engine has to turn to trigger the ignition
Click to expand...
that's interestingo_O
 
L.A.B. said:
Are you sure the white/blue WU wire that would originally have connected the starter relay 'C4' terminal to the coils side of the ballast (now removed?) has been disconnected (preferably at both ends)? If WU is not disconnected there would be no sparks during starter motor operation.

Are the coils 6V? The Boyer triple EI is expected to work with the original T160 6V coils connected in series so each coil is getting about 4V. The Pazon triple EI (Altair) kit for instance, uses three 3V coils (0.5 ohm so not suitable for use with a Boyer).
Click to expand...

Good observations Les.
Yes to both: Ballast resistor stayed off the bike when rebuilt. Coils are Genuine (old) Lucas 6V

@RoadScholar, again, good observations. The Wiring harness is new, the starter motor just rebuilt.
I'm confident it's drawing the voltage down as you say - check LAB's previous post:

http://www.boyerbransden.com/micromarkiv.html
"The Boyer Bransden range of Analogue MKIII ignition units are being progressively changed to improved MKIV versions. The changes are designed to improve the timing stability if engine starting with a very low or variable battery voltage. The design changes are internal and do not affect the external appearance of the unit. Identified by the 'MKIV' caption on the label the new units are fully interchangeable with previously produced MK3 and MK1a units, and offer improved performance for both electric and kick start machines. All Digital and Power designs will remain as before."

Essentially, it seems the Mk 3 was never fit for purpose for bikes with electric start, which has been a recurring theme on this forum for as long as I've been a member. Boyer have seemingly addressed this with the Mk 4, but not identifying the Mk 3 as unsuitable for ES bikes is questionable IMHO.

Hope we're not getting too far off-topic!
 
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