Parts, anyone?

Stu Bodycote said:
£2.5m on spares for what though? By all accounts they've shelved every new model....so what are the spares for, 961?
The way its going, I wouldnt be surprised if we see an updated incarnation of the 961, unless they can design, r&d a totally new bike from scratch in an unbelievably short space of time.
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As we know there are a handful of pressing issues to be addressed on the 961 like the final drive tab washer which got me, strengthen battery frame, rocker bushes, floppy petrol tank etc. but so long as all the parts fitted are genuine and to spec and it is correctly assembled there is no reason why the bike shouldn't be reliable and New Norton are definitely determined to sort these issues out. Wouldn't be surprised if we discovered that they had been extensively testing the 961 for reliability in various locations around Europe as well.....

Lets imagine that NewNorton were actively doing all this you might come to the conclusion that there was a future for the 961 in some shape or form.

Lets also imagine that NewNorton acquired the business believing the bike production was in a healthy state then discovered the V4 was not fit for production, the Atlas range was also not ready for production; that leaves the 961 as the only bike that standing any chance of getting out the door. And that had a reputation for unreliability which was something NewNorton certainly did not wish to inherit.

Maybe I have an overactive imagination or......... ;)
 
Imagine spending over £16m on a bankrupted company, then buying the order book...and after showing off a new facility, a plethora of new staff including a QC department...to two years later unveiling to the world a revised version of a bike initially released in 2010 by the previous custodians to the brand. Besides, in its current format, every bike would have to be msva'd, as its not euro5 homologated. As far as I'm aware, msva'd bikes are UK market ie to be shipped overseas they would have to be classed as used.... I'm pretty certain thats true for Germany, but not sure about elsewhere...can anyone confirm eitherway?
To get the 961 through euro5, in my opinon, would be a no go...its far too noisy for starters.
I didnt bother attending the factory tour thingy the other weekend, as I figured it would just be Kate reading a script...pretty much like a politician leading up to an election, making a positive statement of things to come.
Eitherway, I'm slightly biased, so disregard my view on the matter haha
 
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As you say the 961 is not going to go through euro5 yet effort and money is definitely being spent to get it reliable. That said they are not about to do any significant redesigns. They have bikes to fulfil existing orders but they are sitting there and will not release them until they are happy with the quality and, looking at the investment in test equipment and procedures, quality and reliability does seem to be the mantra.

Ref the noise - they have been looking but don't think it can be improved without unfeasible re-engineering.

There is also the intention to support existing users which is definitely something which has been a bit lacking and users will be encouraged to come to the factory with a very classy reception/lounge area - this is pretty much complete.

I believe there are some really positive intentions for owners and potential owners and at last there's a bit of cash to make it happen. Compared to their main Indian business with sales of some 8000 units a DAY Norton is small beer but image is of utmost importance; however at some point the bean counters will be looking for real returns....

I'm sure you have heard so many similar promises at NotNewNorton and understand your scepticism. Maybe I'm just too gullible - people tell me that so it must be true. I certainly won't disregard your views - your contributions to the forum continue to be of great value.
 
I'm afraid I dont have a classy lounge or reception area....the best I can offer is a fold up chair and free raid of my workshop fridge, or the missus's coffee machine if you can suss it out haha
I still talk to a fair few ex work colleagues, that have stuck with TVS-Norton, so I get titbits...but no specifics. I know Norton past, and present, are floating about on both here and the various Facebook pages....so they must have taken on board some of the frustrations.
 
Stu Bodycote said:
I wouldnt be surprised if we see an updated incarnation of the 961.
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A nice thought, but I think it's unlikely.
To the new company, the 961 is a mixed bag of compromised issues.
Everything outside the powerplant is salvageable with minor redesign/improvements - electrics, fuel tank, etc.
The motor is a different issue.
With 961 production rights in the hands of Jinlang, tvs would have to start with a whole new engineering design project.
Or buy 961 motors, and spares from Jinlang, how would perspective owners feel about that?????
Russell said in one of his interviews that the Commando name would return someday in some form.
I don't see tvs designing an air cooled, pushrod, 2 valve, twin 961 to replace the existing motor.
I don't see Norton fans wanting to buy a reborn 961 with a Jinlang produced mill in it.
The Envro-Nazis will make it impossible by regulation, for manufacturers to produce new ICE vehicles after 2030 or so.
To me, at this point we are more likely to see new electric designs, far fewer ICE designs.
Russell may have been hinting at a future e-Commando.
Leaves a bad taste in my mouth, by being at the mercy of global regulations, this looks like it's our future.

I think the best outcome is to have 961 spare parts availability either through Jinlang, or indirectly through tvs carrying Jinlang spares for 961 owners.
Not the best outcome, but at least it's a way to keep existing 961's on the road.
 
Sorry, I meant a different engine completely....which would mean a modified frame and swingarm. It would still be a nobbled up old bike though....not the fresh clean start you'd expect from a big company backing.
With regards to the build rights, I was under the impression that the Chinese only bought rights to build the 961 unit under licence...similar to Chinese versions of other engines and/or bikes.
 
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There is definitely something in the air for the 961 and talk of supporting existing owners. Whether that's the Final Forty or future owners we'll have to wait. They have had their hand forced to fix issues like the fuel tank as E10 fuel will become the norm over the coming warranty period.
 
I never really understood why that was such a problem. We had problems with fuel in America from what I recall, so I dont know why the issue wasn't just thrown back at Acerbis.
 
Guys, the £2.5m for spares was in the ACCOUNTS…

Y’all not used an accountant before ?!?
 
Ollie´s bikes are running very reliably.
He has put a lot of money and knowledge into the engine.
I know that he overhauls new engine before the customer gets the bike.
Also several dealers send new bikes to him.

Panetone
 
Stu Bodycote said:
I never really understood why that was such a problem. We had problems with fuel in America from what I recall, so I dont know why the issue wasn't just thrown back at Acerbis.
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Obviously what really highlighted the issue was the Ducati owners action. There are alternative materials which Acerbis used but NewNorton have made some changes to the tank with E10 in mind. I'm sure you know that changes were made around the pump flange previously, but as I plan to keep the bike as long as I can still ride I expect to have to fit an alloy tank at some point. I don't have any experience of tank sealing products - keep meaning to research.
 
Stu Bodycote said:
Sorry, I meant a different engine completely....which would mean a modified frame and swingarm. It would still be a nobbled up old bike though....not the fresh clean start you'd expect from a big company backing.
With regards to the build rights, I was under the impression that the Chinese only bought rights to build the 961 unit under licence...similar to Chinese versions of other engines and/or bikes.
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Should that be the case, it wouldn’t be the first time Norton used a ‘bought in’ motor!
 
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