P11 wheels

elefantrider · Jun 13, 2016

Anyone here remember off-hand the number of spokes on a P11? Is it 40 front and rear? Rim size is WM2 19" front and WM2 18" rear if my memory serves me correct, but has anyone used WM3 on the rear?

gnolan · Jun 13, 2016

40 is correct. Can't help with regard to a WM3 fitting the rear.

Ron L · Jun 13, 2016

According to the parts books (and the wheels in my shop)
WM2-19 front
WM3-18 rear

BillT · Jun 13, 2016

I agree. The hubs are Matchless (AMC) so the spokes are straight - no figuring out the weave pattern, just slide the spoke through the hub, and where it hits is where it goes. The standard tires are 3.25x19 front and 4.00x18 rear - either Dunlop K70 or Avon AM6/AM7

I like the Avons, myself

elefantrider · Jun 14, 2016

Thanks! I was thinking of eventually fitting some used Borrani/Akront shouldered aluminum wheels.

I bet my stock Dunlop steel rims are all rusted inside and will soon find out.

One stream crossing and the water stays in there and slowly rusts them out.

Do not want Stainless spokes on this bike so need to determine if I can use my stock spokes with aluminum rims.

CanukNortonNut · Jun 14, 2016

elefantrider said:
Thanks! I was thinking of eventually fitting some used Borrani/Akront shouldered aluminum wheels.

I bet my stock Dunlop steel rims are all rusted inside and will soon find out.

One stream crossing and the water stays in there and slowly rusts them out.

Do not want Stainless spokes on this bike so need to determine if I can use my stock spokes with aluminum rims.

I went that route but with new Morad shouldered rims 19" WM2 front and 18" WM3 rear.
These look great with stainless steel spokes.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

BillT · Jun 14, 2016

Remember that any rims need to be punched in the AMC pattern, and that the rear wheel uses the heavy off-road spokes, so nipples are a little larger than standard road nipples.

CanukNortonNut · Jun 14, 2016

BillT said:
Remember that any rims need to be punched in the AMC pattern, and that the rear wheel uses the heavy off-road spokes, so nipples are a little larger than standard road nipples.

Thanks BillT
I got them from Mike Partridge at Walridge and he sent me the rims and spokes. I had no problem lacing the front which is central for offset but the rear spokes that he sent to me initially were on the short side and too much of the thread was still exposed when I lace up the rear hub. I had to send the spoke set back and he then got me some that were 3/16 to a 1/4 inch longer and these are correct. eg. no threads exposed above the spoke nipple when fully tightened.
Is there a offset to the drum side? I have a builder friend that said it should be 17/32" on the drum side and 7/16" on the speedo gearbox side.??? Does that sound right?
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

elefantrider · Jun 15, 2016

Can you post some pictures of your wheels.

BillT · Jun 15, 2016

Sorry, Thomas, I don't remember!

Yes, the rear wheel should be offset a bit to compensate for the sprocket/brake drum, but I can't find my notes.

Mike Partridge should be able to tell you, or Steve Surbey at AMC Classic spares. I'm sure all the AMC big bikes (G80, G11, G12, 18, 30, 31) had the same offset (except, of course, the G15/33, which had Norton wheels)

CanukNortonNut · Jun 20, 2016

elefantrider said:
Can you post some pictures of your wheels.

elefantrider here you go. Sorry I was at a rally on the weekend.
The wheel as received from basket case:

Repacked Bearings and new Rim and spokes from Walridge:

All together and ready for truing up:

Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

elefantrider · Jun 22, 2016

Thomas, Thank you. Looks wonderful. The hub looks really clean and I like your stand. Is that home-made? Maybe I will try building wheels myself. Chris

CanukNortonNut · Jun 22, 2016

elefantrider said:
Is that home-made? Maybe I will try building wheels myself. Chris

Yes Chris,
I built that some time ago. :wink: I built a few wheels on it. Mostly commando.
Do a little research on wheel building from the net and give it a go.
Use a dial indicator or you could use a stick or pencil held close to the rim. I use the page stickies to mark the high and lows on the hop. Then I work out the side wiggle.
You will always have a little that you cant get out from the welded area of the alloy rim but it should be fairly easy on a P11 as BillT stated, the spokes are straight and the holes just line up "where it hits is where it goes".
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

pierodn · Jan 15, 2017

CanukNortonNut said:
BillT said:

Remember that any rims need to be punched in the AMC pattern, and that the rear wheel uses the heavy off-road spokes, so nipples are a little larger than standard road nipples.

Click to expand...

Thanks BillT
I got them from Mike Partridge at Walridge and he sent me the rims and spokes. I had no problem lacing the front which is central for offset but the rear spokes that he sent to me initially were on the short side and too much of the thread was still exposed when I lace up the rear hub. I had to send the spoke set back and he then got me some that were 3/16 to a 1/4 inch longer and these are correct. eg. no threads exposed above the spoke nipple when fully tightened.
Is there a offset to the drum side? I have a builder friend that said it should be 17/32" on the drum side and 7/16" on the speedo gearbox side.??? Does that sound right?
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

Hi Thomas,
You can read my last post about the rear wheel offset.
I have laced the rim in the center of the hub but now the wheel is not centered into the swinging arm, it seems to be 3 mm more on the timing side (the contrary of the commando).
I will relaced with offset but the troubles are other!
Ciao
Piero

CanukNortonNut · Jan 15, 2017

pierodn said:
CanukNortonNut said:

BillT said:

Remember that any rims need to be punched in the AMC pattern, and that the rear wheel uses the heavy off-road spokes, so nipples are a little larger than standard road nipples.

Click to expand...

Thanks BillT
I got them from Mike Partridge at Walridge and he sent me the rims and spokes. I had no problem lacing the front which is central for offset but the rear spokes that he sent to me initially were on the short side and too much of the thread was still exposed when I lace up the rear hub. I had to send the spoke set back and he then got me some that were 3/16 to a 1/4 inch longer and these are correct. eg. no threads exposed above the spoke nipple when fully tightened.
Is there a offset to the drum side? I have a builder friend that said it should be 17/32" on the drum side and 7/16" on the speedo gearbox side.??? Does that sound right?
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

Click to expand...

Hi Thomas,
You can read my last post about the rear wheel offset.
I have laced the rim in the center of the hub but now the wheel is not centered into the swinging arm, it seems to be 3 mm more on the timing side (the contrary of the commando).
I will relaced with offset but the troubles are other!
Ciao
Piero

Hi Piero,
The front wheel should be central between the suspension down tubes. The rear wheel offset "in my notes" should be 17/32" on the drive side (drum brake side) and 7/16" on the speedometer gearbox side. Use a straight edge along the hub edge to the tire rim to achieve your offset for the rim. How is the gearbox sprocket and rear drum brake sprocket alignment with each other? Use a straight edge. Make sure you have all the spacers in the correct order when assembling the rear axle to the swing arm. Looking at the ebay picture on your thread, I think the second spacer(.5665"x1.19" OD and .6200" ID) to the right should be on the outside of the swing arm on the drive side against the nut. The one with the groove should be on the inside of the swing arm on the drive side over the long spacer with the notches that are cut out for the swing arm adjusting slot. I hope this makes sense in the translation. Maybe BillT can pipe up for clarification.
Cheers,
Thomas

pierodn · Jan 15, 2017

Hi Thomas,
I understand well.
But they remain some questions.
I speak about the offset of the rim not of the hub.
The Gearbox sprocket and hub sprocket are well in line.
Is the rim that is non in the center of the singing arm and not in line with the front rim.
I know about the grooved spacer position but i cannot understand what it need if when you tight the axle this spacer has an end pay of 3 mm (it longitudinal dances!).
I dont understand when you speak about an offset on right and on left.
The commando has the rim (rispect the center of the hub) that needs to be laced 3mm offset on the timing side.
Let me know.
Thank you.
Piero

CanukNortonNut · Jan 15, 2017

pierodn said:
Hi Thomas,
I understand well.
But they remain some questions.
I speak about the offset of the rim not of the hub.
The Gearbox sprocket and hub sprocket are well in line.
Is the rim that is non in the center of the singing arm and not in line with the front rim.
I know about the grooved spacer position but i cannot understand what it need if when you tight the axle this spacer has an end pay of 3 mm (it longitudinal dances!).
I dont understand when you speak about an offset on right and on left.
The commando has the rim (rispect the center of the hub) that needs to be laced 3mm offset on the timing side.
Let me know.
Thank you.
Piero

Hi Piero,
Rear rim and hub is offset:
P. “I speak about the offset of the rim not of the hub.”
I’m not sure what you are asking here?
P. “I don’t understand when you speak about an offset on right and on left.
The offset as I set it, as per the recommendations of others who have rebuilt the wheels for the P11 AMC Matchless. I am going by these recommendations.
Use a Carpenters square and run it along the edge of the hub (without the brake drum) perpendicular to the axle.
This gap should be 17/32” or 0.5313” or 13.494 mm on the brake side. Between the straight edge and the rim.
On the timing side should be 7/16” or 0.4375” or 11.112 mm. Between the straight edge and the rim. (if you are using a WM3 rim).
P. “The Gearbox sprocket and hub sprocket are well in line.”
If it lines up well then your spacers should be in proper order.
P. “I know about the grooved spacer position but i cannot understand what it need if when you tight the axle this spacer has an end pay of 3 mm (it longitudinal dances!).”
Is your rear brake plate that holds the shoes and outer cover on? That would take up the 3 mm
Edit: Not so sure if the grooved spacer should be inboard of the brake plate and outer cover or outboard. The picture that I took at Barber may indicate that it is outside of the brake plate and cover.
Others who have running P11 please verify.
Cheers,
Thomas

CanukNortonNut · Jan 15, 2017

I have checked some of my pictures on the grooved spacer and It is indeed outside of the brake plate and chrome cover.
Cheers,
Thomas

pierodn · Jan 16, 2017

Hi Thomas,
thank you.
I have understood now what you mean.
I use a rear WM3 and i will laced it again with the correct offset.
Remains the problem that the wheel locks up when i tight the spindle.
Piero