oil feed back of the engine external line to front?

1st heard about it in this thread when I looked over this vid. Something about oil out the back with an external line going to the front feeding the followers. Utuber said '1 & only setup'

Then ran across some further discussion here

including this thread post (scroll down for comments) & pix

Apparently, above is "just a drain for the head"

So dunno what all folks may have done with this oil feed from the back (& looked it up)?

74ok said:

1st heard about it in this thread when I looked over this vid. Something about oil out the back with an external line going to the front feeding the followers. Utuber said '1 & only setup'

So dunno what all folks may have done with this oil feed from the back (& looked it up)?

Click to expand...

The beginning of the video was pushing my creativity meter hard. Clockwork Orange hard. I had to pause it at 24 minutes when he was talking about the oval squish combustion chamber mod to eat some dinner. Will get back to it later.

I know nothing about Dave. What an impressive character. I like the enthusiasm and work. He has probably touched and modified every nut and bolt on those bikes.

Oiling the cam and lower valve train like he does probably quiets it down and makes it last. Smart

I wonder if he ever sleeps.

The engine in the picture that I recall had porting that broke into the head oil return to the timing chest so needed that external line.

I also thought those hoses on the N&B bikes had something to do with camshaft area lubrication.
As stock the push rod cups have oil via the passages in the rocker spindles so oil right over the push rod tunnel, the two drains at the exhaust valve side (engine tilted forward around 18 degree's) also go into the push rod tunnels so there must already be a reasonable amount of oil getting to bottom where the followers reside.
Plus there also oil exiting from the sides of the connecting rods at the journals, I read the older Norton might have had some form of trough under the camshaft.
The cam could have had drillings in the lobes like many other engines and pressure fed. (Maybe JC did that also from the timing side end cavity)

Idling the bike like a Lister probably does them no good.

Edit = exhaust not inlet.

Time Warp said:

The engine in the picture that I recall had porting that broke into the head oil return to the timing chest so needed that external line.

I also thought those hoses on the N&B bikes had something to do with camshaft area lubrication.
As stock the push rod cups have oil via the passages in the rocker spindles so oil right over the push rod tunnel, the two drains at the inlet valve side (engine tilted forward around 18 degree's) also go into the push rod tunnels so there must already be a reasonable amount of oil getting to bottom where the followers reside.
Plus there also oil exiting from the sides of the connecting rods at the journals, I read the older Norton might have had some form of trough under the camshaft.
The cam could have had drillings in the lobes like many other engines and pressure fed. (Maybe JC did that also from the timing side end cavity)

Idling the bike like a Lister probably does them no good.

Click to expand...

No advice comment on this one. Vaguely recall a shop person in Vancouver , Canada sets up external oil lines to supply lubrication to the cam lobes. Enjoy.

That's what started all this. Dave Sundquist, Redline Norton in Burnaby....

I would be surprised but prepared to be if there was a torrent of oil coming from that one passage or rear location (at one inlet valve location normally going to the timing chest) when there are two robbing it at the front of the tilted engine.
Especially when (as above) the two stock front drains are already going to that hosed location, the push rod tunnels.

The video is to helter skelter for me and I am fairly eccentric.
Cam end fed from where, the oil pump is just coping at best without tapping into that pressure feed and if not pressure fed it would be wishful thinking.

Time Warp said:

I would be surprised but prepared to be if there was a torrent of oil coming from that one passage or rear location (at one inlet valve location normally going to the timing chest) when there are two robbing it at the front of the tilted engine.
Especially when (as above) the two stock front drains are already going to that hosed location, the push rod tunnels.

The video is to helter skelter for me and I am fairly eccentric.
Cam end fed from where, the oil pump is just coping at best without tapping into that pressure feed and if not pressure fed it would be wishful thinking.

Click to expand...

Me too! The normal intake area drain is about a 1/8" hole down through the cylinders, right turn through the crankcase into the timing chest. A bigger hose isn't going to move more oil than there is and the standard setup works so that's all the oil that is in that area as far as I can see.

As mentioned by TW, the common reason for fitting an external head oil return hose is due to big porting jobs breaking into the stock return drillings. This is the case on a Maney stage 3 head for example. But this normally simply routes to the timing chest, so doesn’t change the stock oil flow arrangement.

Regarding routing the oil return to the cam followers, wouldn‘t the timing chest miss the oil flow?

74ok said:

1st heard about it in this thread when I looked over this vid. Something about oil out the back with an external line going to the front feeding the followers. Utuber said '1 & only setup'

Dave Sundquist Nortons (2018)

http://www.durafix.com/ https://www.frost.co.uk/lumiweld-kits.html

www.accessnorton.com

Then ran across some further discussion here

TW wrecks a perfectly good Commando etc.

The bracket is done besides some filing on the sides, the fillets on the side welded up (ER70 wire) nicely but I hit the corners with a 5mm radius cutter anyway (set up took longer than the cuts which is often the case) It could have been more basic (less time) but since I am copying a JC idea I...

www.accessnorton.com

including this thread post (scroll down for comments) & pix

Crankcase mods - advice please

Although the sump location on 72's may be splitting hairs for normal usage, I personally prefer the rear location. As far as the timing side drainback/level hole is concerned, the stock hole may or may not be too high, but a drilling down below the pump seem potentially detrimental. Perhaps a...

www.accessnorton.com

Apparently, above is "just a drain for the head"

So dunno what all folks may have done with this oil feed from the back (& looked it up)?

Click to expand...

So then GP adds

grandpaul said:

Similar issue with Kenny Dreer 880 using Baisley head.

so i'm thinking now wtf? 'baisley' head?, you vets then get into dreer heads & stuff that i totally missed out on, but turns out lots more to that one word

Then Ken chimes in
lcrken said:
Similar pictures posted here

head-flow-testing-t8640.html

& drops the above link (now broken) - head-flow-testing-t8640.html

workaround info

Brain fart. I thought he figured out a way to get the oil down in front under pressure. It's a dribble pipe.

Fast Eddie said:

Regarding routing the oil return to the cam followers, wouldn‘t the timing chest miss the oil flow?

Click to expand...

Apparently not. Dave Sundquist reroutes oil flow to the cam followers on all his bikes:
However, he has installed some tricky pressurized oil filter arrangement for the feed pump, and maybe some fresh oil is injected into the timing cover by a jet?

Otherwise, there are leak sources from the oil pump, the crankshaft feed, and the PRV for Mk3 and covers modified by / according to AMR .
Anyone rerouting the "inlet" oil drain will inevitably have to do his/her homework to ensure a sufficient amount of oil is accumulating in the timing chest. Lowering the drain hole in the timing chest may not be a good idea if going this route.

As for the dribble pipe: Assuming 10% of the oil feed goes to the top end, which is diverted there 50%/50%, and knowing a good oil pump feed delivers about 1 L / min @ 3000 rpm, the supply of oil to the timing chest at this engine speed would be 0.05 L/min, that's 3 L/hr. Leakage sources and possibly a small jet will easily compensate for this loss of supply. By reducing the temperature in the timing chest, the oil pump will likely work better as well.

- Knut