Norvil Belt Drive Install Questions

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In restoring my 1974 MK2, I have decided to fit a Norvil belt drive & a three-phase Lucas alternator. The Norvil instructions are poor (to say the least) and after several searches on this fantastic forum, I am wondering about the following:
  1. I have the Norvil clutch basket mounted on the transmission output shaft and the clutch nut torqued to 40 ft/lbs with blue Loctite. (Before mounting the basket, I checked to ensure that the crank/output were square and torqued my second gearbox adjuster.) The basket sits on the cupped washer and the two shims that were there before. How do I know whether I need the shims under the basket? If I can turn the basket without interference, is that enough?
  2. The Norvil belt drive clutch basket came with an additional steel plate and the instructions do say to include that. I did, and then alternated friction & steel (Barnett) as instructed. Once I have my 850 pressure plate (see below), should that fit, and if it stacks too high, should I consider leaving off the extra Norvil plate?

  3. I have the crank pulley installed and tapped it home so that it is square with the basket and the belt travels evenly. After the pulley, I installed the Norvil pulley retaining plate. Now do I need the original alternator washer with the Norvil setup, or can I leave that out? If it is included, which way should the recess face?
  4. Do the crank rotor shims just sit on top of the Norvil pulley retaining plate (or the alternator washer, if needed) and, if so, what am I shimming for? I do not see what I am trying to line up, unless the shims are intended to make the rotor face flush with the stator.
Sorry if any of these questions are too obvious. FYI, when I disassembled the primary, I removed an aftermarket QPD clutch basket that contained a 750 clutch and pressure plate -- ordered my new, thinner 850 plate yesterday after an hour of fettling finally led me to check the dimensions of the plate. I thought I was crazy -- it was a relief to know I just had the wrong part!
 
Do you have the dual gearbox adjusters fitted?
With my norvil belt drive I have no shims
The front pulley has a plate each side to locate the belt
So I adjust mine until the belt runs true with no crabbing
 
Do you have the dual gearbox adjusters fitted?
With my norvil belt drive I have no shims
The front pulley has a plate each side to locate the belt
So I adjust mine until the belt runs true with no crabbing


Yes, I have the dual gearbox adjusters fitted and the crank/output are square with one another.

Baz, do you just torque the rotor against the Norvil retaining plate on the front pulley? (i.e., no spacers or shims between them)?
 
Yes, I have the dual gearbox adjusters fitted and the crank/output are square with one another.

Baz, do you just torque the rotor against the Norvil retaining plate on the front pulley? (i.e., no spacers or shims between them)?
I have an Alton electric start on mine so I have a sprag clutch and spacer that is torqued against the front pulley
I can't remember what I had before I fitted the Alton!
But I believe there was a spacer against the pulley and the alternator rotor sat against that
Incidentally when you bolted on your clutch did you use the tab washer?
If so take it out and throw it over the fence
Cheers
 
I would lap the front pulley onto the crank very very gently with fine grinding paste if I were you literally just for a few seconds to see if the taper is making a full contact
 
Which Norvil are you talking about?

if Mr Emery then the conversation will go something like this.

him Your an idiot. Shut up and listen.

you But

him shut up or I’ll hang up now.

you. but I just ....

him. Listen. Everyone in the word is a liar and an idiot except me. I’m perfect so shut up and listen. And so on.

get the picture.


This from personal experience talking to him once about 20 years ago.
 
We will see which Norvil I get! Questions is out to them.

Anybody have view on #3-#4 based on their experience with this belt drive? It looks like the cupped alternator washer and rotor shims are not needed, from what I can tell.
 
I would imagine that the crank pulley shims are to go between the pulley and rotor? Centralising the rotor within the stator is not super critical, but close is better.

Moreover, I do not believe you should butt the rotor up against the pulley plate. The torque is designed to be taken up on the central steel part of the rotor.

So, for both reasons above (getting the rotor closer to the centre of the stator, and for purposes of good torquing) a small spacer, or washer, should go between the rotor and pulley side plate IMHO.
 
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I used to run a Norvil belt kit and thought it was fine. This is the only pic I have of the set up though. At least it shows the rotor to stator alignment I ended up with...

Norvil Belt Drive Install Questions
 
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You don't need the shims behind the clutch so that bit is correct. Refer to Atlantic green information to get clutch stack height correct. On the front sprocket I used a normal large washer between it and the rotor. I reduced the size of the spacers on the stator mounting studs to get the stator more central with the rotor but that was just me being picky.

Most important thing is that the belt runs true and you don't have it too tight. Err on the side of loose if unsure. I have had my belt drive for 30+ years and it has been good. In all that time I am on my second belt and only changed the original because I thought I should. The original still looks OK and I keep it as a spare.

Ian
 
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We will see which Norvil I get! Questions is out to them.

Anybody have view on #3-#4 based on their experience with this belt drive? It looks like the cupped alternator washer and rotor shims are not needed, from what I can tell.
If you are talking about contacting the beard I wouldn't bother
Just make sure the components in your belt drive kit are made properly and ask questions on here
 
I used to run a Norvil belt kit and thought it was fine. This is the only pic I have of the set up though. At least it shows the rotor to stator alignment I ended up with...

View attachment 12878

Fast Eddie, thanks for the pic! Do you recall whether you ran any shims between the rotor and the sprocket? It seems like the consensus on #3-#4 above are:

-No alternator washer between the Norvil belt retainer plate and the rotor.
-Shims between rotor and retainer plate are OK and are used to bring the rotor up to level with the stator
.

Anybody with this setup disagree? Seems like retainer plate is not intended to bear any thrust, though I would expect that the force of the rotor nut is borne by the crank taper rather than the pulley/plate.
 
IF you do shim the rotor out DONT go far as it can be moved out till it hits the timing scale. i do not shim the rotor or shorten the stator spacers as it has NO effect on charging trying to have the rotor centered.
 
Fast Eddie, thanks for the pic! Do you recall whether you ran any shims between the rotor and the sprocket? It seems like the consensus on #3-#4 above are:

-No alternator washer between the Norvil belt retainer plate and the rotor.
-Shims between rotor and retainer plate are OK and are used to bring the rotor up to level with the stator
.

Anybody with this setup disagree? Seems like retainer plate is not intended to bear any thrust, though I would expect that the force of the rotor nut is borne by the crank taper rather than the pulley/plate.

I believe I’ve I already answered this point in post #10 where I said:

Moreover, I do not believe you should butt the rotor up against the pulley plate. The torque is designed to be taken up on the central steel part of the rotor.
So, for both reasons above (getting the rotor closer to the centre of the stator, and for purposes of good torquing) a small spacer, or washer, should go between the rotor and pulley side plate IMHO“.

However, as also mentioned by another poster, I believe I also shortened the stator mounting spacers in order to try and keep the whole show as inboard as possible.

 
Well, I just found this thread from my own trials and tribulations with this same topic, might be worth a read:

https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/belt-drive-alternator-question.16832/#post-246502

In post #19 I summarise it thus:

I've ended up with a 1mm (040" ish) spacer between the pulley and the rotor and by using a new, standard style star washer and nut, I've used almost all of the available thread on the end of the crank.

Now I've just got to hack off approx 3.7mm off of the stator spacers to get the stator as inboard as possible whilst leaving approx 1mm clearance between it and the pulley.

Sorted
”!
 
Response received from Norvil: "The answer is No - Rotor fits straight on Tap of Pulley Plate.
It does NOT use Spacers or Shims."

I have fitted the rotor directly onto the top of the pulley/belt retaining plate and it mounted fine without any issues. The new (3-phase) Lucas alternator was 1/4" proud of the rotor but I will work that out with shorter spacers.

Wanted to make sure I closed this thread with a resolution. Thanks to all!
 
Now that the belt drive and rotor are installed and nipped up, I am working on getting the stator aligned as nearly possible. I have the 1/4" spacers mentioned before, and it looks like they will do the job but the insulation on the stator is interfering with the castings that hold the inner primary studs -- since the spacers are not as tall, the stator recess receives a few mm's of the castings/posts.

The interference is very slight, but just enough on each of the three mounts. Looks like there are two alternatives: (1) shave the insulation on the stator to fit around the post; or (2) shave down the casting to fit inside the insulation. Since this is such a tiny fraction of an inch, I am inclined to go with (2). Has anyone encountered this before? I saw another thread here in which it looked like the insulation had been recessed, but I thought that was a no-no!
 
A small sanding drum or grinding stone in a Dremel will relieve the epoxy around the stator mounts. I had to do that with my e-start install.
 
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