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Norton's Finacial future.

Discussion in 'Norton Motorcycles (Modern)' started by gchoppin, Nov 26, 2019.

  1. gchoppin

    gchoppin

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2017
    Working with my dealership on a new fuel tank price has provin problematic. We're at least two months into the process. VIN paint code for my 2015 961 has been verified. The issue is bubbling paint and now it's leaks fuel. What else could go wrong? Not to be a jerk. You would think Norton would be happy to sell me a tank and not profit from a crappy tank they design. I don't care about the money anymore. I just want the right tank basic fairness.
     
  2. TonyA

    TonyA

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Are you saying that you want a new plastic tank at a discount ? The way to go is painted alum tank no ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  3. Eljahara

    Eljahara VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2018
    Tony, the problem is massive differential in price. The Alu tank is now £2300 and paint will be at least a couple of hundred on top of that add in shipping and you are getting close to £3000 just to fix a problem that should not be happening on such a young bike - let’s be realistic here, you are looking at a third of the value of a 2015 bike. This issue does not seem to occur on other vehicles which are 3-4 years old.
    GC has said cost is not an issue but we do need to be sensible, as our parents/grandparents knew...you don’t keep throwing good money at a problem.
     
  4. TonyA

    TonyA

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Being sensible and being a Norton owner are very different. Aluminum is the permanent solution , but costly I know.
     
    gchoppin likes this.
  5. worntorn

    worntorn

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Alloy tanks love to crack if mounted on a bike that vibrates a fair bit. They work for awhile, but may not be so great long term.

    Glen
     
    Eljahara likes this.
  6. jan nelder

    jan nelder

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    not if you get someone good and local to make it.
     
  7. Eljahara

    Eljahara VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2018
    That’s true Jan but those who have looked have not found anyone willing (or able) to take on small volume manufacture. Setting up the machine is apparently very costly and they would want a return on their investment.
    I enquired at a fabricator in Essex but they were overbooked and the cost wasn’t far off the Norton one -hence mine went with the original plastic tank.
    Remember Scimitar cars? They were 100% plastic and fibreglass bodywork plus petrol tank and I don’t recall them warping or leaking.
     
  8. jan nelder

    jan nelder

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
     
  9. Ferreteer

    Ferreteer

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2019
    I bet a pound to a pinch that norton are farming these alloy tanks out to the likes of holtworks and adding 100% markup. Holtworks do a fantastic buell manta tank which requires a lot more work for around a grand. The tank shop in Scotland do a cheaper if rougher tank, but their guzzi tanks are lovely.

    No-one could have forseen the issues with increase of ethanol in fuel and I guess a class action however aggressive would not stick to norton even though theirs are more susceptible to it than other manufacturers. It is going to get worse though, as govt legislation is set to push this higher.

    In my view a business owner with an issue like this (and even a middling moral compass) would negotiate a deal with a tank manufacturer and offer a one for one replacement at cost plus shipping. Unfortunately it appears (in far too many threads on here) that the moral compass of the "current" brand owners spins faster than that owned by Jack Sparrow!

    Speaking of spinning, Simon-Pierre Smith must be spinning with dismay on his draughtsmans stool
     
  10. BritTwit

    BritTwit VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Jet engine manufactures use 3D metal printing it to make turbine blades.
    Maybe Norton will start making proper steel tanks with this tech.:p
     
  11. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    I never understand the problem people have with getting parts from norton factory.
    I live in Michigan. I call or email what I need and place my order, pay them and receive my order in 3 days. I never have any issues.
    I’ve literally bought everything our bikes need except a frame, and a complete engine and wheels.
    I bought 2 tanks, exhaust, oil pumps, fuel pumps, sensors, hardware, yolks, lights, seats, brakes, chains, mudguards, air boxes, etc etc.
    if it’s in stock I get it 3 days to my door.
    Perhaps it’s your dealer and not Norton.

    I also question why the vin is needed. That’s besides the point. Norton only offers a few paint color options. it’s not like they offer an array of colors to choose from.
    black with gold, yellow with black, red with gold etc. they know exactly the correct colors.
    Have you called or emailed Norton yourself?
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
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  12. gchoppin

    gchoppin

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2017
    What contact info can you share?
     
  13. Voodooo

    Voodooo VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    676839CB-C5F5-4198-ADFB-1CEDD886575F.png
     
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  14. Glenn Harman

    Glenn Harman

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2019
    If you can't get past reception, 01332 502236 was Technician Ash's direct number, who was on here quite often. Hes unfortunately left, so assume someone else will be picking up the phone.
     
  15. Madnorton

    Madnorton

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    How would you stop it leaking - hipping? Also how would you extract the honeycomb structure inside. If you could get two on the print bed that would help with the cost.
     
  16. BritTwit

    BritTwit VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Good points.
    I would do the printing in two parts, the tank upper, and lower/bottom sections.
    They would need to be welded together, so not sure if this is practical today.
    If the honeycomb did not add too much mass to the structure, then it could remain as fuel baffling, with some machine required to allow fuel flow between compartments.

    But I'm not suggesting that I have all of the answers, just offering another possible avenue of thought.
    This as opposed to hoping that someone, somewhere will see a market worth investing $$$ to build expensive Norton tank dies for an industrial hydraulic press.

    Of course, one could build a wooden form for the tank top out of heavy wood planks, one on top of another, with the contour shaped by routing each individual wooden plank to the proper shape.
    Then shape the tank from 18 gauge sheet steel up against the form by use of the time honored caveman hammer banging method.
    The tunnel part of the tank would present a greater challenge due to the under tank interferences like the battery/relays/etc.
     
  17. Madnorton

    Madnorton

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    It may need to be one piece, easily done, if the internal support build can be left in place. It would be easy to print a tank, however there are compromises to be made.
    To compensate for the internal support structure weight, you could specify a thinner section - possible as the internal support would aid stiffness. A two piece would need to be thicker section so it could be welded, but then the support structure could be removed.
    Two piece could possibly be printed using less height which would reduce the cost.
    From the cost of what is being asked for a bare tank, it could be worth looking at.
     
  18. BritTwit

    BritTwit VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    It should be fairly simple to create a 3D wire frame model of the Norton tank’s surface (top and bottom) using something like a 3D System Sense 3D scanner in Solid Works. From there some type of internal reinforcement will have to be added to the structure. Then you just need a 3D slicer to output to the printer.

    Oh yeah, a Direct Metal Laser Melting (DMLM) 3D printer big enough to print a 24” or so tank is also required. Got to come up with a few million bucks or find an eccentric industrialist willing to allow me to use his DMLM.

    Have to factor in revisions/fixes before a final design is arrived at.
    That could become expensive if it required multiple prints to arrive at an acceptable final design.

    The really cool thing is that the tank could have the embossed Norton emblems literally printed into the surface of the tank metal, no screws or adhesive - part of the tank. An intricate, ornate surface could be created.

    Apologies for polluting this thread with my fantasies.:p
     
  19. gchoppin

    gchoppin

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2017
    I sent a camera inside the task snd found the leak. It was where the fuel cap drain passes through the tank. Was able to use a plastic fuel tank repair putty to stop the leak. At least now it's rideable.
     
  20. DODGY DEN

    DODGY DEN

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Happy new year to all Norton owners keep the wheels turning. Does anybody know what’s going on at Norton there has been a lot of speculation but know firm news about the the future and after the crowd funding was pulled who is the new financier the mind boggles.

    Dodgy Den.
     

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