Norton wins again and again

Status
Not open for further replies.
jseng1

jseng1

Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
3,216
Country flag
This has got to be the winningest Norton roadracer in recent history with win after win and no blow ups or failures for over 40 races. Gary Thwaites on the Dave Watson 1007cc.

Gary at work
Norton wins again and again


Used piston below (still in service after more than 40 races).
Norton wins again and again


After recent freshen up
Norton wins again and again


I re-started this thread after photobucket killed my pics in the previous thread
 
If a liter-class Norton can be made reliable thorugh 40 races, a streetbike of the same capacity with decent reliability should be feasible. What are the downsides to a 1000cc street Norton?
 
Danno said:
If a liter-class Norton can be made reliable thorugh 40 races, a streetbike of the same capacity with decent reliability should be feasible. What are the downsides to a 1000cc street Norton?
Click to expand...

Starting it? :lol:
 
Kevin Atherton parked his streetified XR Harley next to my spotter's outpost at this year's Daytona 200. When he went to leave, he pulled a small motor out of his backpack, plugged it into the XR's primary and fired the engine. He then deposited the motor back in his backpack and rode away. Sometimes you need creative solutions that make "insurnountable" problems easy to fix.
 
What bikes are his opposition riding and how highly developed are they ? - Any really big money stuff ?
 
acotrel said:
What bikes are his opposition riding and how highly developed are they ? - Any really big money stuff ?
Click to expand...

Among other makes, Gary races against triples and Weslake 8 valvers. He also goes against some 4 cylinders of a more modern class that start on the same grid. He generally wins. The bike is very fast and it has modern technical advantages that remove a great deal of stress and vibration. A photo of Gary and also rans below.

Norton wins again and again


"Still using same eng...Gary won on the [Norton not triumph] at bob mc last year ... he won all three races on my seeley commando as he did this year winning all five races. Also had wins at Mallory park and Antree this year, we are at croft race track this weekend with crmc all race results can be found on Internet [ mylaps ]
regards Dave Watson"
 
The SBR 750 Norton from New Zealand will be at Croft this weekend, wonder how it will go up against Gary and Daves Norton?
Regards Mike
 
Is there any way to follow these races live or "semi-live" via internet?

Ed
 
The Weslakes might take some beating, but unless the triples are on a big power circuit .. might not be so difficult ? Do any aircooled Ducatis or Harleys run in the same race class ? What about CR750 Hondas ?
I'd really love to see some video - a good Seeley Commando can be a very good weapon. I never believed in mine, so it remained unraced for yonks - I now actually believe in it. Good to see someone doing so well with one. I just wish we had a race class - Air-cooled BOTT, with no cut-off date.
 
Still using same eng...Gary won on the [Norton not triumph] at bob mc last year ... he won all three races on my seeley commando as he did this year winning all five races.
Click to expand...

This is mistaken, I was at the Bob Mc in 2016 and 2017, in 2016 Gary was riding in the Unlimited a 750 Hereberg Triumph Rob North 750 as it states in the programme and as I saw in the flesh, in 2017 he was back on the Watson Norton. Mylaps does not include the bike details only the riders identity.
 
kommando said:
Still using same eng...Gary won on the [Norton not triumph] at bob mc last year ... he won all three races on my seeley commando as he did this year winning all five races.
Click to expand...

This is mistaken, I was at the Bob Mc in 2016 and 2017, in 2016 Gary was riding in the Unlimited a 750 Hereberg Triumph Rob North 750 as it states in the programme and as I saw in the flesh, in 2017 he was back on the Watson Norton. Mylaps does not include the bike details only the riders identity.
Click to expand...

I wasn't there. I'm just relaying what I was told. Dave and you continue to disagree on this point. Maybe you could straighten it out with him.

Brooking - what can you tell us about the SBR Norton?
 
He can post on this forum if he disagrees with me, think I know the difference between a Commando engine in a Seeley frame and a trident.
 
Hi jim, all I know about it is the basics.
Head development work (not sure if they are running a Full Auto as yet I know he managed to get his hands on a raw head)by Landon Brothers in Tauranga New Zealand, 750 short stroke, probably close to 16:1 CR, runs on methanol ,NZ made billet cases, cast iron barrel,(this maybe the case ) not sure who the crank is by, Newby clutch in it , NZ made frame, TTI gear box (not sure if 5 or 6 speed)
Probably mid to high 80 rwhp as I know there was a lot more development on it prior to going to the UK and it was pushing out 84 rwhp leading up to this year.

I did ask owner/engine builder for the specs to post for you, he may do once he gets back from the UK.
Regards Mike
 
So nothing much has been done to it to make it faster ? Which ignition will reliably fire 16 to 1 comp. ?
 
Brooking 850 said:
Hi jim, all I know about it is the basics.
Head development work (not sure if they are running a Full Auto as yet I know he managed to get his hands on a raw head)by Landon Brothers in Tauranga New Zealand, 750 short stroke, probably close to 16:1 CR, runs on methanol ,NZ made billet cases, cast iron barrel,(this maybe the case ) not sure who the crank is by, Newby clutch in it , NZ made frame, TTI gear box (not sure if 5 or 6 speed)
Probably mid to high 80 rwhp as I know there was a lot more development on it prior to going to the UK and it was pushing out 84 rwhp leading up to this year.

I did ask owner/engine builder for the specs to post for you, he may do once he gets back from the UK.
Regards Mike
Click to expand...

BHR might have allowed methanol they can particularly in vintage classes, CRMC rules won't allow it in the class the bike will run in, so some of that development work might have been to run it on avgas (not legal) or 50/50 avgas mix (legal, generally!), or race fuel.

The races will run combined classes, so 1300 multis against 1300 twins and contrary to Alan's comments, expect the competition to be overbored triples, and George Hogton Rusling, and Lee Hodge on a TZ750.

In June George lapped Cadwell 3 seconds faster than the SBR, on a 350TZ, he also ran nearly 2 seconds faster on a bigger bike, and Lee ran around a second faster on the big TZ. Big Weslakes are not running as fast at the moment for various reasons. Gary will clearly try to ride the wheels off the Norton, in the programme as 850! but he has not been running with CRMC for some time, so may find some of the other competitors more of a challenge.

Croft should be fun, it is much faster.
 
I get a bit thing when the capacity of classic bikes gets over 1000cc. To my mind that destroys the competitive aspect of racing. Bigger is not necessarily better. In Australia, we have the Horner Vincent in which nothing was ever made in the Vincent factory. It's capacity is over 1500cc. It races in one of the historic 'periods'. It is a really lovely piece of engineering , but what does the competition mean when that is competing ? It takes a MotoGP bike to out-speed it.
Much better when the bikes have 1000cc maximum capacity and are similar TYPES of bike i.e. air-cooled four-stroke twins. My biggest regret in life is that I will never get to race my Seeley 850 against air-cooled Ducatis and Guzzis, because they are the same TYPE of rubbish - they have the same problems. If you can beat them with a commando-based bike, you might have actually proved something.
 
So although it has Norton on the tank, Are there actually any Norton bits in it?............. Errrrr NO
 
gripper said:
So although it has Norton on the tank, Are there actually any Norton bits in it?............. Errrrr NO
Click to expand...

Well, I understand the comment, however they aren't the only ones. If you stipulated 40 year old Norton parts there would be no Commando based bikes racing, or Manx Nortons, or pretty much anything classic.

We have to be realistic. It costs £1000s to build any engine, and much more if you have to rebuild it every week. My friend Alan rode with an original Norton crank, at Pembrey this year he did cartwheels at 80mph after it locked solid exiting a fast bend due to crank breakage, not a nice thing for a 61 year old. Not many of us would go racing if that was a regular occurance. Modern race parts allow more peace of mind as well as more performance.

As it happens the best Norton race parts, actually look very much like the original parts, which on some bikes they don't!
 
you are right Steve, my comments were tongue in cheek to a certain extent, however, with the engines out to 1000cc and some very expensive parts racing is getting away from the basics and is now a case of "he who has the biggest budget wins" still good to watch though. Also in the event of a mechanical disaster, no genuine Norton parts were hurt :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

o0norton0o
Tires again, and again...
2
Replies
33
Views
2,194
ilikevelos
I
jseng1
  • Locked
Norton wins again
2
Replies
29
Views
3,255
SteveA
SteveA
Hobot
  • Locked
Push rod total frustration again and again
Replies
19
Views
1,296
Hobot
Hobot
Back
Top