Norton V4SV: New Norton’s new superbike unveiled

Vernon240

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Saw his post on facebook under a Motorcycle live posting:

"I can't see that new Norton will be getting a warm welcome from the Norton V4SS owners group considering the lying deceitful way they are behaving with the owners! Please take note - we cannot warn you strongly enough to steer well clear of new Norton and do not spend your hard earned cash with them - go to a proven more honourable manufacturer - you have been warned please spread the word - I know from 1st hand experience"

So I asked him what were the details, as it sounds like Norton have offered them a good deal. the response was :

"do you own a V4SS or have any full comprehension of what has been and is going on !"

Said no I don't, but I'm aware of some of his, but essentially, if he makes these sweeping statements without any detail to back up what he says, it sounds like someone bitter with the old company wanting to take it out on the new. Conversely, if there is substance, I'd want to know.
 

cliffa

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If that was his reply to a genuine question I can see why he is probably not getting his own way with Norton.
 

Vernon240

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If that was his reply to a genuine question I can see why he is probably not getting his own way with Norton.
Agree. V4 owners have a genuine axe to grind, which I don't think is in debate. If there is underhandedness going on, I'd want to know though....but I get this sense that it's all about people getting upset that new Norton wont 100% make up for the faults of old Norton. Accusations of 'lying and deceit' are fairly strong accusations, but without specifics are meaningless and make the people throwing around these accusations look silly.

I would assume most owners were fairly well heeled and thus have a modicum of intelligence, so this 'throwing their toys out of the pram' stance is surprising. I'm assuming it's not all V4 owners, but a few I think.

On the other hand, maybe things went on behind closed doors? Don't know. Serious claims that can't stand even light scrutiny are suspicious in my book. Taking the 'you don't own one, how could you know' stance is equally ridiculous. If you have a genuine issue, explain it. If you can't explain/articulate it...then I have to question the validity of said issue. It's a reasonable position to take.
 

Fast Eddie

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Agree. V4 owners have a genuine axe to grind, which I don't think is in debate. If there is underhandedness going on, I'd want to know though....but I get this sense that it's all about people getting upset that new Norton wont 100% make up for the faults of old Norton. Accusations of 'lying and deceit' are fairly strong accusations, but without specifics are meaningless and make the people throwing around these accusations look silly.

I would assume most owners were fairly well heeled and thus have a modicum of intelligence, so this 'throwing their toys out of the pram' stance is surprising. I'm assuming it's not all V4 owners, but a few I think.

On the other hand, maybe things went on behind closed doors? Don't know. Serious claims that can't stand even light scrutiny are suspicious in my book. Taking the 'you don't own one, how could you know' stance is equally ridiculous. If you have a genuine issue, explain it. If you can't explain/articulate it...then I have to question the validity of said issue. It's a reasonable position to take.
Well put.

The only point I’d disagree with is that the well healed V4 customers should behave better… whilst not wishing to tar all with the same brush, wealthy people are often so used to getting their own way that they’re the most dramatic when it comes to throwing toys out of the pram!

This guy claimed to be setting out to warn POTENTIAL future buyers… so owning an old model V4 is utterly irrelevant to your questions. If he was serious, he should have, and would have, answered you properly. In fact, he’d have had a pre prepared answer ready to cut n paste to all such enquires.

The guy is clearly bitter and twisted, maybe justifiably, maybe not, without clarity it’s impossible to tell.

But personally, I wouldn’t let the unsubstantiated rantings of a bitter and twisted person put me off. If you did that you’d never buy anything !!
 

Vernon240

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Well put.

The only point I’d disagree with is that the well healed V4 customers should behave better… whilst not wishing to tar all with the same brush, wealthy people are often so used to getting their own way that they’re the most dramatic when it comes to throwing toys out of the pram!

This guy claimed to be setting out to warn POTENTIAL future buyers… so owning an old model V4 is utterly irrelevant to your questions. If he was serious, he should have, and would have, answered you properly. In fact, he’d have had a pre prepared answer ready to cut n paste to all such enquires.

The guy is clearly bitter and twisted, maybe justifiably, maybe not, without clarity it’s impossible to tell.

But personally, I wouldn’t let the unsubstantiated rantings of a bitter and twisted person put me off. If you did that you’d never buy anything !!
:D Yea, guess you are right on behavior! :D

I hope some owners do step up and accept the offer and start getting the V4's out there. It would be a great to see some out and about, but I would guess they are really going to be as rare as hens teeth out in the wild!
 
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Just my two penn'orth:
TVS have quite publicly damned the Garner V4 and in doing so devalued it to the point of almost worthlessness. I expect no insurer will cover any Garner V4 should anyone be fortunate enough to get one running.
Were any of these faults insurmountable? I'm not suggesting TVS involvement, but perhaps there's hapless owners out there who might want to address these faults using third party expertise.
Has the TVS statement closed this avenue too?
Agreed, TVS don't have to offer a red cent, but I can sort of understand why their public lambasting of what came before might have miffed a few....
 

BritTwit

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The guy is clearly bitter and twisted, maybe justifiably, maybe not, without clarity it’s impossible to tell.
All true.
I think at least some of the "twisted" are so because they were not well heeled, but saw an investment opportunity in the V4SS. They leveraged their lives to buy one thinking it would appreciate and they would be in the money.
Now they have a second mortgage on a damaged home, and now have to pay an additional 10 grand to fix it.

The well heeled will just buy a new V4 and place it into their collections right next to their existing V4SS. Twenty years from now when Norton will be back in the black, the V4SS will be a curiosity for Norton owners to display at bike shows, and events. The bike that "was not ready for prime time."

Also, when they make the feature film about the flimflam man SG, the studios will need actual V4SS's, and 961's for the movie. Owners can rent their bikes to the studios for a fee.
There's a silver lining in every cloud.
 

Vernon240

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Just my two penn'orth:
TVS have quite publicly damned the Garner V4 and in doing so devalued it to the point of almost worthlessness. I expect no insurer will cover any Garner V4 should anyone be fortunate enough to get one running.
Were any of these faults insurmountable? I'm not suggesting TVS involvement, but perhaps there's hapless owners out there who might want to address these faults using third party expertise.
Has the TVS statement closed this avenue too?
Agreed, TVS don't have to offer a red cent, but I can sort of understand why their public lambasting of what came before might have miffed a few....
Good points. I'm really not sure. I think the idea of looking at the V4 was to try and help the existing owners..and at the same time, I'm sure they saw a PR benefit in doing this. Maybe the latter was more important than the former? It may well be that they uncovered a can of worms that they were not expecting.....which kinda put them in a tough place...probably tougher than if they had just not touched them...but not doing that would have not been great for PR either. I'm not sure what the right way would be of handling this would be though. It looks like they were handed a hand grenade with the pin pulled as part of the purchase of Norton when it came to current V4 owners. I don't see why owners could not try and resolve the issues though. Insurance, whatever they do, could be a tough one and no doubt the TVS statement has not helped. I wonder what Norton would do if they do a limited run of V4's and they don't sell...would they revisit the issue with current owners? Who knows. I'm not sure there would be a clean path here for either party outside of New Norton essentially giving away however many bikes.
 

Fast Eddie

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I stand by my point that these bikes are two years old FFS.

Even if there were NO issues… you’d still be looking at that kind of hit trading one in. At least.

So to expect more than that now the bikes are essentially worthless, from a company who never made them, never received money for them, and has zero legal responsibility for them, is just daft frankly.
 

Vernon240

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I don't think depreciation was part of the game plan! :eek:

When this owner says:
"I can't see that new Norton will be getting a warm welcome from the Norton V4SS owners group considering the lying deceitful way they are behaving with the owners! Please take note - we cannot warn you strongly enough to steer well clear of new Norton and do not spend your hard earned cash with them - go to a proven more honourable manufacturer - you have been warned please spread the word - I know from 1st hand experience"

Slightly amusingly, the only way out of this situation is for him is to spend his hard earned cash with new Norton. It's either that or he falls on his own sword of misplaced principle.

Assuming the new V4's are circa 40K and current owners can get one for £10k plus their bike, that has pretty much set the market value at about £30k...so the ebay one made the right money. Clearly not the money he paid plus 2 years appreciation he wanted. In all the videos, I 'think' I heard the new CEO say this was a time limited offer though, so £30k might go out of date quickly. Will the owners who did not take up the offer then lament the 'not open-ended' offer made to them a year down the line? Probably.
 
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Have to admit to not reading too close here (never paid much attention in school either... detention record holder!!) and thought the TVS offer was £10k px for Garner era V4s
But to offer what? Perhaps 75% of the original price?..... For an un rideable machine they didn't build..... That has to be a fair deal to draw a line under the whole sorry affair.
Though those owners still have a right to vent their wrath, just not at TVS.
 

Fast Eddie

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I don't think depreciation was part of the game plan! :eek:

When this owner says:
"I can't see that new Norton will be getting a warm welcome from the Norton V4SS owners group considering the lying deceitful way they are behaving with the owners! Please take note - we cannot warn you strongly enough to steer well clear of new Norton and do not spend your hard earned cash with them - go to a proven more honourable manufacturer - you have been warned please spread the word - I know from 1st hand experience"

Slightly amusingly, the only way out of this situation is for him is to spend his hard earned cash with new Norton. It's either that or he falls on his own sword of misplaced principle.

Assuming the new V4's are circa 40K and current owners can get one for £10k plus their bike, that has pretty much set the market value at about £30k...so the ebay one made the right money. Clearly not the money he paid plus 2 years appreciation he wanted. In all the videos, I 'think' I heard the new CEO say this was a time limited offer though, so £30k might go out of date quickly. Will the owners who did not take up the offer then lament the 'not open-ended' offer made to them a year down the line? Probably.
The new V4SV is £44k. So TVS Norton are basically offering owners of unusable SG V4s £34k. That’s more than even the eBay bike got bid to… for something they are then going to scrap!

If I recall correctly, the base model was actually less than this? If so, some owners will still be quids in?

To the FB SG V4 owner who says “go to a proven more honourable manufacturer”… I say try that out yourself mate… pop down to your local Ducati dealer and see what they offer as a PX against a new Panigale.

Well don’t actually… I’ll save you the trouble cos I can tell you now they’ll offer you precisely f*ck all!!
 
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I suspect that even though this is the first official offer from TVS the V4 owners took previous conversations to mean their bikes were going to be fully sorted by TVS at the administrators expense ie a Garner liabilty. These conversations would not have been offers but merely hints based on the info at the time they were made, as the list of faults grew longer then the initial hints ended up being unsupportable. Also the CEO change from John Russell to Robert Hentschel would have made a change in how the V4 owners were treated ie short term manager to long term manager.

Only the V4 owners and TVS really know, the only info is from the Ebay listing which is from one owner and one side only.

Still looks a good offer to me.
 
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I'd say a private FB group, showing 1 pix of 2 961s & nothing else, with 20 members, means diddly,

as far as someone posting here claiming to speak for that site, which by itself is problematic.

The way it's being done usually results in attention & scrutiny of the poster, not to mention it (cross forum beefs) often isn't even allowed, or welcome.
 
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Vernon240

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I'd say a private FB group, showing 1 pix of 2 961s & nothing else, with 20 members, means diddly,

as far as someone posting here claiming to speak for that site, which by itself is problematic.

The way it's being done usually results in attention & scrutiny of the poster, not to mention it (cross forum beefs) often isn't even allowed, or welcome.
I don't think anyone is posting here claiming to speak for the private FB site. I simply quoted what a proclaimed owner put onto a Motorcycle live post on FB......which seems to have mysteriously disappeared.:rolleyes:
 

Vernon240

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I wonder what these guys will do though?

1637329826378.png
 

Fast Eddie

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It occurred to me that our eBay seller may have simply been testing the market, seeing what it was really worth, and hoping it gave him some ammo to go and leverage new Norton with?
 
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I doubt there will be no front of queue for the new V4, if you are 4'6''then you might fit on it. Despite being a V4 it is very small when I saw it in the flesh, it was on a display stand about 4'' high and the back end was then jacked up on a paddock stand. Imagine Triumph 675 fitted with V4. Quick and light weight it looks to be, but not comfortable for tall riders.
 

Fast Eddie

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I doubt there will be no front of queue for the new V4, if you are 4'6''then you might fit on it. Despite being a V4 it is very small when I saw it in the flesh, it was on a display stand about 4'' high and the back end was then jacked up on a paddock stand. Imagine Triumph 675 fitted with V4. Quick and light weight it looks to be, but not comfortable for tall riders.

If you’ve got the mental capacity to ponder the discomfort… you're not going fast enough…
 
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