Norton P11 Disc Brake Front Option

The more miles I put on this P11, the more disappointed I am with the front brake. This stopping issue is brought about by my other bike, a new 2017 701e Husqvarna, that has a disc. So I wanted some input on options to install a disc on this P11.

I don't want to change the Teledraulic front forks.
I will buy a complete new front wheel with disc.

What is my main issue is -
What front caliper?
how to mount caliper?

Here is an inspirational photo off the web from 2014. I don't have details.

A Commando front setup may require different yokes but would seem easiest to adapt. The caliper bolts directly to the lower leg which is otherwise identical to it's counterpart on the other side.

I looked these calipers and fork legs, but didn't see an easy way to adapt to the Teledraulic fork leg ( that has no structure for bolting caliper).

Not sure about any parts interchangeability, but the forks are very similar outwardly. Adapting the disc setup to a drum-braked
Commando requires the parts you mentioned plus one lower fork leg.

The inspirational photo shows a P11 with a what I believe to be a Norvil front disc set-up. It certainly looks like the Norvil one to me, with a Lockheed caliper mounted behind the fork leg. "Classic Bike" recently included a good write-up on the 50th anniversary of the Commando. One of the articles was about "living with a Commando today" and showed a couple with Norvil front disc brake kits (one single disc and one dual disc). Not cheap as I recall! The single disc setup used the original fork leg and the dual disc setup included 2 brand new, specially cast fork legs. Discs in 12", 13" and 14" IIRC.

You might try http://www.clubmanracing.com/discsystems.php

Hi.
Why do you need a front brake disc?.
I ride to 4000 rpm and my drum front brake brakes works well.
Better to spend money for good shoes and a fine regrind of the hub.
Piero

What I really need are some photos or graphics on caliper mounts to a Teledraulic lower leg, not specifically P11, but any Teledraulic equipped bike. The other components are easy to work out.

Maybe a plate that is tied into the axle, at the bottom, and attaches to the two cast upper fender bosses (?) ......some special shape to allow caliper to mount behind the fork leg.

Anyone seen calipers on another Matchless with Teledraulic?

Or simply a vintage bike with a similar fork leg issue.

Some time ago I had a very short chat with the owner of the inspirational photo P11.
What I faintly recall is that he has kept the teledraulic stanchions and modified the Commando slider bushes.
Also it is a single pot Italian caliper (Grimeca?) with adapter plate.
I have a better foto of the bike but cannot post a picture here.
My front disk plans are now abandoned. Now I am more with Piero. The drum brake of my P11 is far better now with few mods. Like a special front brake cable from Venhil, the correct levers and so on.

Peter

p400 said:

The more miles I put on this P11, the more disappointed I am with the front brake. This stopping issue is brought about by my other bike, a new 2017 701e Husqvarna, that has a disc. So I wanted some input on options to install a disc on this P11.

I don't want to change the Teledraulic front forks.
I will buy a complete new front wheel with disc.

What is my main issue is -
What front caliper?
how to mount caliper?

Here is an inspirational photo off the web from 2014. I don't have details.

View attachment 5251

Click to expand...

Everyone can benefit from a better front brake but you shouldn't expect modern performance from a design created more than 50 years ago. Good luck creating what you want. I'm wondering if that photo is from our P11 friend in CO, Tom K?

p400,
I wonder if you should just send the wheel and hub/brake assembly to:
http://www.vintagebrake.com/
They can set up your brake drums to the best that they can be and it might be cheaper than any type of conversion to disk. Plus it will be period correct, just don't chase any modern bikes down some mountain passes in California.
Cheers,
Thomas

Hi all. Haven't been on here in a good while but did just in the last few days. Jerry K is right, the disk brake mod belongs to me. I truly despised having to not keep the bike original, however, I was concerned about stopping much as P400 is (probably old age.......). The mod can easily be switched back to the original drum if a future buyer is concerned about originality. I would be happy to share details to anyone interested................. BTW, I appreciate the recent input on my 2015(??) post about the Reynolds decal. This site truly is awesome. Thanks everyone!

After nearly riding my Armstrong MT500 into the rear of a car near Hemel Hempstead a few years ago, I decided that I want a disc front brake on any of my bikes that I ride on the road. I understand wanting to keep things original, but like TomK, I'll let the next owner put it back to original if he wants to. On my P11 I've already decided not to do any mods that can't be easily reversed.

Hi

Junglebiker said:

After nearly riding my Armstrong MT500 into the rear of a car near Hemel Hempstead a few years ago, I decided that I want a disc front brake on any of my bikes that I ride on the road. I understand wanting to keep things original, but like TomK, I'll let the next owner put it back to original if he wants to. On my P11 I've already decided not to do any mods that can't be easily reversed.

Click to expand...

.

Hi All.
Are you sure that a disc conversion brakes better?.
My disc commandos brake well but not much more than my brake drum commandos.
May be because i never ride up 4000 rpm.
Piero

p400 said:

What I really need are some photos or graphics on caliper mounts to a Teledraulic lower leg, not specifically P11, but any Teledraulic equipped bike. The other components are easy to work out.
Anyone seen calipers on another Matchless with Teledraulic?

Click to expand...

Not exactly. The Arter Matchless 7R had a disc brake. The far side fork leg appears to be a racing Teledraulic unit (maybe a special though) while the nearside was a Norvil slider and caliper set-up.
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2016/july/williams-matchless-g50-mk4-wagonwheels/

Have you considered fitting a hydraulic drum brake? This has been used on AMC bikes in the past. The bike will brake almost as good as with a disc brake and retain the visual appearance to boot.
There was a guy in the UK by the name of Malcolm Saggers who pioneered this solution on AMC bikes. He is no longer with us, but his solution isn't difficult to copy. There are further improvements in store by modifying he brake plate into duo servo action.

http://www.jampot.com/article_print.asp?id=410

One thing worth remembering is that better brakes require strong (stiff) stanchions, yokes, a sturdy headstock and a frame capable of handling the loads. The G85CS & P11 were built for low weight and hence, greatly reduced stiffness compared to a road bike. Hard braking was hardly a necessity on the motocross courses or in the desert.
Particularly the headstock and its bearings isn't really suitable to fast riding and hard braking. Also, the stanchions are rather feeble compared to Roadholder units. One reason why AMC switched to Roadholder forks because they concentrated on the large capacity bikes.

Why not try skimming the hub and the brake linings, as well as fitting racing linings? Also centralise brake shoes. I have heard these measueres makes wonders to braking effectiveness. If you are still dissatisfied, why not try the hydraulic drum brake route? With this you will be capable of bending your fork stanchions ......

-Knut

You could fit in theory a disc to any drum brake bike, all you need to do is mount a homemade bracket to one of the bottom fork legs and get it TIG welded on VIP.

But why not try tweaking the drum brake first; there are already tips elsewhere on this website ( Commando and other Norton’s) on how to do it, my fav to save me money. is to make some homemade metal slippers to fit on the brake shoes to bring them closer to the brake drum.

I am sure a Commando lower leg added to a Tele fork would be the answer. Question is how to do it?

Bernhard said:

You could fit in theory a disc to any drum brake bike, all you need to do is mount a homemade bracket to one of the bottom fork legs and get it TIG welded on VIP. .... my fav to save me money. is to make some homemade metal slippers to fit on the brake shoes to bring them closer to the brake drum.

Click to expand...

I am surprised you guys don't have much respect for type approval and structural safety issues. The P11 was never factory approved for a disc brake.

In theory .... a disc brake can NOT be fitted to any drum brake bike, unless it has been proven to withstand the braking loads and without causing judder, fork twist and binding of the headstock races, etc.

Obviously you have never welded aluminum, and even less an alloy fork slider. I have (even an AMC one) and I can testify they will distort and ovalize. This is not a viable path. Better to have one slider machined from billet. It's not going to be cheap. Our esteemed member Madass gave up producing his sliders because of machining difficulties.

I do not know how your metal slippers are intended to work, but ... a drum brake can be set up to work really well.

-Knut

I was thinking a simple plate caliper mount, registering thru the front axle, could be held by a strap bracket (like OEM).
I see this done on other bikes.

In my case, I don't have a front fork or a drum brake. I don't even have a hub. Originality is not super important to me, though I do like the overall look of the P11 and don't want to muck about with it too much.