New Project, Need some help with everything

Hi, My name is Sean and i've recently been given a 1971 commando. It didn't have any wires on it at all so I bought an entirely new wiring loom. I really want to get the bike to a nice standard, but was wondering if there is anything that i should check out regarding the engine before i start the project. I don't want to waste my time trying to restore the bike and then find out that the bike is not worth saving. The bike looks complete (exempt electrics). The engine turns over on the kick start and seems to create a lot of pressure when doing so. So if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated. I will upload some photos as soon as i can.
In addition, I am a little confused on how to install the wiring loom as all the literature i find refers to installing the loom to a standard bike, where as mine has an electrical ignition system and powerbox.

Finally, should I wire the bike as positive or negative earth. Any suggestions?

If i can get the bike to start then this would be a great achievement for me.

My bike: 1971 commando with a boyer ignition system and power box.

seandean said:

I don't want to waste my time trying to restore the bike and then find out that the bike is not worth saving.

Click to expand...

That means you need to break it down and start from scratch. Otherwise, you'll never know. Sorry.

Dave
69S

seandean said:

Hi, My name is Sean and i've recently been given a 1971 commando. It didn't have any wires on it at all so I bought an entirely new wiring loom. I really want to get the bike to a nice standard, but was wondering if there is anything that i should check out regarding the engine before i start the project. I don't want to waste my time trying to restore the bike and then find out that the bike is not worth saving. The bike looks complete (exempt electrics). The engine turns over on the kick start and seems to create a lot of pressure when doing so. So if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated. I will upload some photos as soon as i can.
In addition, I am a little confused on how to install the wiring loom as all the literature i find refers to installing the loom to a standard bike, where as mine has an electrical ignition system and powerbox.

Finally, should I wire the bike as positive or negative earth. Any suggestions?

If i can get the bike to start then this would be a great achievement for me.

My bike: 1971 commando with a boyer ignition system and power box.

Click to expand...

Pictures please.

Sean being given the bike is a great start because all of the rest of us have to PAY for one then spend. We can get it running for you.

Ugh there is a whole bunch of useless circuits in harness, police lights and sierns and radios for one thing and turn signals for a possible other to eliminate. Ideally you tear is down inside out then put back all right but what the heck if it made it this far intact might get lucky and just need to refresh enigne support systems and not engine and gear box insides. Of course if it had oil coma pistons with a known fatique limits that can be a downer to discover, later. Norton Commandos are like a box of chocolates... They are all sweet candy no matter which kind you unwrap.

Do you own a home with equity?
If so, then take out a loan, buy at least 3 manuals, make friends on here and start stripping it down.
Don't forget the loan$$$

Yeah, what a deal, I just wonder why they didn't wait one more month and tie a ribbon around it for you!
Any how welcome aboard.

Do you know when the bike was last run and why the wiring was removed? Hopefully the PO wired the boyer and black box to plug into the stock harness so you can just plug it all right in.

Fitting the wiring harness should be quite simple. You should invest in a hard copy workshop manual though, among other things it has a wiring diagram to follow. There are 2 types of wires in the harness, solid colours and solid with a fine stripe of a different colour running the length. The manual calls the stipe a "tracer" so a blue wire with a thin white line running along the length will be referred to as a blue with white tracer. A white wire with a fine blue line is called a white with a blue tracer. The ledger found on the diagram will show the abbreviations. The thickest part of the harness is above the engine so you can tape that to the frame and work the long tail end through the rubber grommet in the flat metal frame web located at the back of the gas tank under the main backbone. The harness is designed with detachable tributaries at various points so you can unplug different sections that mount to the different parts to aid in dismantling these parts off the bike for servicing. For example, each switch control on each handle bar has a tributary wiring harness that plugs into the main harness just behind the frame neck. The headlamp wires meet there as well and you will see the largest gang connector or junction block is located there. If you ever need to replace or service these parts you can simply unplug that section of the harness and remove the part.

G'day Sean, welcome to a great place.
If you really want to get this bike running, then have a go, but be aware that there could be allsorts
of strange things that have happened to a 40 y.o. bike,you will probably need to rebiuld it sooner or later
but if you can't resist the temptation, then so be it. But you need sparks first. Then...
Remove the carbies and clean them properly, don't worry about puting the air filter back on, it may be dead.
Then you will need to flush the oil out. so..... Remove the rocker covers and squirt some oil in, this will run down
inside to the cam and on down to the crankcase. Look inside the oil tank, hopefully you can see oil, but don't be
alarmed if you don't because it most probably will have run back down the line, through the pump to the crankcases,(refered to as wetsumping).
Remove the spark plugs and squirt a little oil in there as well, not too much.
Check the Gear box for oil. Check the primary case for oil. Check to see if the Boyer is set as it should be.
Kick kick kick kick kick. Plugs still out. Check to see if oil is now returning to the oil tank as you kick. It sort of squirts and dribbles and
carries on. If so, kick some more. Loosen off the rocker feed lines and kick, if there is oil, tighten back up.
Now you have lubricated the engine.
Drain that old oil out and give her (or him) some new stuff.
Check the valve timing, or at least that things are going up and down.
You will need at least one new set of spark plugs, probably two. Put them in and give it a go.
If you have got spark and fuel and the timing is right, you might be lucky.
IF IT GOES, DON'T REV THE CRAP OUT OF IT, But you will need 1200 revs or so to throw oil up to the cam.
Run it a bit, check everything, nuts bolts, oil return, brakes, oil leaks. Then make some more decisions.
OR.
Start stripping it while it's Winter.
I hope this helps, if I have forgotten something, someone here will pick it up.
Decisions decisions.
AC.

Yes , Old man winter suddenly becomes your friend when you are given a 40 yr. old Norton to get up n' running. The driveside crankseal alone cannot handle that timeframe .But we need more details as obviously the P.O. did some level of work to it i.e. Boyer - powerbox .

Welcome to the forum.

You'll find plenty of excellent resources right here, to help you get your bike fully up to snuff.

Hi Sean,

Aussie Combat is giving you great advice. You don't have to embark on stripping it to every nut and bolt to begin with. I've gotten many old bikes running, after a careful procedure like AC describes. Some need rebuilding, some are actually in pretty good shape. As DogT said, you'll never know, but you have plenty of time to figure out how you want to approach things. An initial startup, along with what you discover when you change fluids may tell you a lot about the condition, and how it was stored. You may start it, ride it briefly, and hate the thing, who knows? (I doubt that!) If you are tempted to ride it, pay attention to all of the obvious safety related things - tires, brakes, chains, etc. You don't need to replace those to go for a low speed ride around the neigborhood, but put your safety first. Since you were given the bike, you can't get hurt too bad on this project. If at some point, you want to turn it into something that every part has been rebuilt, replaced, re-chromed, etc. you will have more invested in it than you will probably get out of selling it. But, you might enjoy that, and never want to part with the thing. Above all, have fun.

'luck,

Don

seandean said:

I am a little confused on how to install the wiring loom as all the literature i find refers to installing the loom to a standard bike, where as mine has an electrical ignition system and powerbox.

Click to expand...

Connecting electronic ignition (ignitions are usually 'electrical') and a Powerbox doesn't involve any significant changes to the wiring, so I suggest you take it one step at a time. Get the harness roughly into position on the bike so that you are able to make all the other ancilliary wire connections from the headlamp back to the tail lamp wiring, and then we can take it from there.

seandean said:

should I wire the bike as positive or negative earth.

Click to expand...

Your choice. If you intend to fit LED bulbs or any other electronic equipment that works with a negative earth supply then negative earth could be a better choice otherwise it isn't entirely necessary.

seandean said:

If i can get the bike to start then this would be a great achievement for me

Click to expand...

Is it a Boyer Bransden 'Micro MkIII' (or MkIV) ignition (black box)? Or is it a red (Micro Digital) or blue (Micro Power) box?
Do you have a good fully charged 12V battery handy, and some spare lengths of wire?

If so, and you want to see if it will go, connect the white Boyer box wire to the battery negative terminal, and connect a wire from battery positive to the earth side of the coils (see the Boyer wiring diagram in the link below) also make another wiring connection from battery positive to the engine.

With the plugs removed, turn the engine over with the kickstart and observe if there are sparks at the plugs (make sure the plug bodies are resting against the engine casing). If the plugs spark then you could attempt to start the engine but don't be too disappointed if it doesn't start.


Micro MkIII/ MkIV instructions:
http://www.boyerbransden.com/pdf/KIT000 ... 00017_.pdf

http://www.boyerbransden.com/instructions.html

Hi to everyone,

Thanks a lot for the posts and advise that everyone has given. Sorry about my uselessness forgetting back on here sooner. I have been a bit busy, but now have all the time the world to fix up the commando. I have researched the bikes electrics and this is what I have found

Year :1971

Ignition stem: Boyer Bransden KIT 00084 MICRO-DIGITAL ELECTRONIC IGNITION FOR NORTON COMMANDO / ATLAS (found at http://www.boyerbransden.com/pdf/KIT000 ... 00032_.pdf)
Power box : Boyer Bransden Alternator Regulator (single phase Powerbox with charging light control found at http://www.boyerbransden.com/pdf/PBOX166.pdf )

It has a the stator plate already fitted but I doubt that it is in the right position.

It does not have indicators and I don't really want them either (the wires green wires for the indicators in the lighting harness have also been cut), but do I need a flasher unit connected if I do not have indicators?

I started by laying my new wiring harness through the frame. I paired up all the connections from the main harness to the lighting harness, but found that there was Blue and a Blue/Red wire from the lighting harness but I think they go the one of the handlebar clusters.

The wires from the handlebar clusters are also confusing.
I have one with: White/Yellow, Green/Brown, Green/White, White, Green/Brown, White/Red
and another with: Black, Blue, Purple, Red, Green/Yellow.

I have connected the ignition switch up according to the manual.

I tried to follow the instruction found at http://www.britcycle.com/Manuals/3451009HarnessInst.pdf but do I need a:
zenner diode?
rectifier?
contact breaker?
balast resistor?
charge indicator?
Electrolytic capacitor?

Finally, the rear brake switch seems to not work properly, I have a photo to see if anyone knows why.

I have done what I thought i needed in order to get a spark, but still it does not spark. Any Ideas anyone?

I have added some photos to flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/72167563@N03/?saved=1)

Thank you for reading my posts. Cheers.

seandean said:

It does not have indicators and I don't really want them either (the wires green wires for the indicators in the lighting harness have also been cut), but do I need a flasher unit connected if I do not have indicators?

Click to expand...

No.

seandean said:

I started by laying my new wiring harness through the frame. I paired up all the connections from the main harness to the lighting harness, but found that there was Blue and a Blue/Red wire from the lighting harness but I think they go the one of the handlebar clusters.

Click to expand...

Blue/Red (UR on wiring diagram) should connect the headlamp bulb dip filament to the handlebar switch cluster which has the dipswitch (this could either be the left or right switch cluster).
The Blue wire (U) should connect the headlamp shell lighting switch to the handlebar "dipswitch" cluster.

seandean said:

The wires from the handlebar clusters are also confusing.
I have one with: White/Yellow, Green/Brown, Green/White, White, Green/Brown, White/Red

Click to expand...

That appears to be the switch cluster marked as "L/H Handlebar switch" on the '71 wiring diagram, however one "Green/Brown" should be a Green/Red (GR), and the second Green/Brown should be Light Green/Brown (LG/N)

seandean said:

and another with: Black, Blue, Purple, Red, Green/Yellow.

Click to expand...

That switch, or its wiring colours does not appear to be standard.

seandean said:

I tried to follow the instruction found at http://www.britcycle.com/Manuals/3451009HarnessInst.pdf but do I need a:

zenner diode?
rectifier?
contact breaker?
balast resistor?
charge indicator?
Electrolytic capacitor?

Click to expand...

Zener diode and rectifier = No because it has a a Boyer Power box which replaces both items.
Contact breaker and ballast resistor = No because it has electronic ignition (the ignition capacitors are not required either)
Charge indicator = Not totally necessary as it only indicates if the charging system is working or not.
Electrolytic capacitor (2MC) = not entirely necessary and it may be no use with the digital ignition.

Update

I've looked at your photos, and your wiring harness appears to be the 1972-74 type, and I see you are using a Haynes manual so you need to use the 1972-on wiring diagram.

Hi, thanks for he quick reply.

I bought the wiring harness of the norvil site and I told them that I had a 71, so it is strange that they gave me that one. I know it has a lot of connections that I do not need or want. How do you know that it is a 72-74 harness? what are the differences?

thanks
Sean

seandean said:

I bought the wiring harness of the norvil site and I told them that I had a 71, so it is strange that they gave me that one.

Click to expand...

It's probably the standard replacement harness.

seandean said:

How do you know that it is a 72-74 harness? what are the differences?

Click to expand...

Actually there isn't very much difference, I noticed the harness has a Blue/Yellow (UY) wire (Ign/Sw. T4 to headlamp lighting switch) this was an additional wire not fitted on the 71 models. As you noted there are some more additional wires which were for the Interpol models.

Thanks.
I thought there was something a bit different about it.
So any ideas why it doesn't spark then? as It appears that I have done everything that needs to be done.

Do I need to connect the handlebar clusters and the brake switches to get it to spark?

What essential components need to be connected to get it to spark. I really need a step by step guide (only joking)

Sean

seandean said:

Do I need to connect the handlebar clusters and the brake switches to get it to spark?

Click to expand...

No. Not at this time.

seandean said:

What essential components need to be connected to get it to spark. I really need a step by step guide

Click to expand...

Check the battery is fully charged.

Connect the White wire from the Boyer Micro-Digital box to battery negative,

Connect the Red Boyer box wire to battery positive.

Also connect number 2 ignition coil positive terminal to battery positive.

Refer to the Boyer diagram if you need to: http://www.boyerbransden.com/pdf/KIT000 ... 00032_.pdf

The spark plug bodies must also have a connection to battery positive. (If you do that by laying the plugs on the cylinder head you must also make sure there is electrical continuity between the engine and battery positive. Don't rely on the Isolastics as they make poor electrical conductors)

Then, repeatedly touch the Boyer box Black/White and Black/Yellow wire connectors together, as that should produce sparks at the plugs? If so, then at least we know the box/coils/plugs work.

That's great. I will give it a go tomorrow morning and let you know how it goes.
Cheers