New member some help and opinions please

Hello all,
My first post and hope its not too long.
I have recently gotten a 1972 Commando Roadster. At least I think thats what it is. Please tell me if it is something else. A friend had it stored in a barn for the last 20 years and it has not been started. The engine kicks over and makes all the right sounds and it should start. It does have some issues to attend first. I would like to know how original it is, (I replaced the bars yesterday as the ones it came with were pretty bent and rusted). I also know the mufflers have been changed. Better, closer pics available on request. BTW, its looks much better in the photos. Its a little rougher up close. I am looking forward to getting it running. One thing that is giving me a headache is the kickstart lever. It is loose on the shaft and I cannot get it to tighten up. I also cannot get it off to inspect the shaft for damage. The bolt is all the way out and I have tried to open the gap. I dont want to pry to hard on it. Is there something I am missing here? It looks like it should just slip off. What engine and trans oil should this take and about how much.
I am dedicated to putting this back on the road but would also like to know what the value of it might be, now and when it is finished so I dont get in too deep. I am going to try and do the work myself when I can. Its a sweet old bike and some day it may make it back to my friend who owned it for about 30 years.
Photos below (I hope)
Sorry for the newby questions. I have had motorcycles all my life but the Norton is a new deal to me.
Thanks in advance and I am looking forward to all the knowledge that seems to be here.
MikeM

Looks like A Hi-rider tank to me, somebody correct me if I am wrong.
For the kickstart, get a large screwdriver & hammer into to gap, where it is split, to spread it out. Keep the screwdriver in & wriggle the kickstart off. The splines on the kickstart or shaft could be worn.
Wish it was mine.

Welcome to the forum MikeM, and thanks for posting the photos.

MikeM said:

I would like to know how original it is,

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The fuel tank is from a Hi-Rider model [Edit: and the 6" Hi-Rider headlamp?], and the fact that it is a '72 model with a drum front brake [Edit: I think it is actually a 1971 model in which case, it could also have been a 750SS] could mean it was a Hi-Rider originally-not that it matters (what size/number are the carbs?).
The ignition coils are non-standard.

MikeM said:

One thing that is giving me a headache is the kickstart lever. It is loose on the shaft and I cannot get it to tighten up. I also cannot get it off to inspect the shaft for damage. The bolt is all the way out and I have tried to open the gap. I dont want to pry to hard on it.

Click to expand...

That's a reasonably common problem, the only way to remove the lever is to spread the gap until it will pull off the shaft.

MikeM said:

What engine and trans oil should this take and about how much.

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Regarding service items, I suggest you read through the factory workshop manual, (you can download a pdf copy here): http://britmoto.com/manuals/Manuals/750_man.pdf -and then ask further questions if you need to, or look in the Tech. sticky for more info technical-information-section-how-post-photos-t2357.html?

You are unlikely to get any sort of definitive answer about which oil type is the best!

As others have said, spread the gap on the KS until it comes off. Get a Grade 8 UNF bolt for it, open up the hole that the bolt first goes in and tighten the bejesus out of it unless it is really worn and you may have to replace the KS, trans shaft or both. You can get a long enough bolt to reach through and put a nut on the other side. There are several threads on this issue.

The value is in your mind or who ever may want it. You will put more money into it than it is worth, get used to it. Originality is hard to tell, most parts on various models are swappable. There should be numbers on the engine, left side, top of trans, and on a plate behind the headlamp shell on the frame, if you're lucky they'll match. Looks like you have a very good starting point. Once you get it running and 2nd gear pulls the blood out of your head from 25 to 70, you'll be in love.

The brakes are nothing to write home about so be careful.

Dave
69S

L.A.B. said:

Welcome to the forum MikeM, and thanks for posting the photos.

MikeM said:

I would like to know how original it is,

Click to expand...

The fuel tank is from a Hi-Rider model [Edit: and the 6" Hi-Rider headlamp?], and the fact that it is a '72 model with a drum front brake [Edit: I think it is actually a 1971 model] could mean it was a Hi-Rider originally-not that it matters (what size/number are the carbs?).
The ignition coils are non-standard.

MikeM said:

One thing that is giving me a headache is the kickstart lever. It is loose on the shaft and I cannot get it to tighten up. I also cannot get it off to inspect the shaft for damage. The bolt is all the way out and I have tried to open the gap. I dont want to pry to hard on it.

Click to expand...

That's a reasonably common problem, the only way to remove the lever is to spread the gap until it will pull off the shaft.

MikeM said:

What engine and trans oil should this take and about how much.

Click to expand...

Regarding service items, I suggest you read through the factory workshop manual, (you can download a pdf copy here): http://britmoto.com/manuals/Manuals/750_man.pdf -and then ask further questions if you need to, or look in the Tech. sticky for more info technical-information-section-how-post-photos-t2357.html?

You are unlikely to get any sort of definitive answer about which oil type is the best!

Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick reply. I WILL get that kicker off. About the oil, I know from the other forums. LOL I guess my question was really what weight of oil. I am assuming that it takes conventional detergent type.

Thanks MikeM

Welcome to the forum! Great find.

Those are Gen-U-wine Dunstall Decibell mufflers, you'd best keep them!

MikeM said:

I guess my question was really what weight of oil. I am assuming that it takes conventional detergent type.

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Yes, well, that's exactly it! Should you use Monograde? Multigrade? Mineral? Semi-synthetic? Synthetic? Detergent? Non-detergent?
You are unlikely to get much, if any, agreement on that at all!

If your Commando doesn't have the spin-on oil filter*, then technically you'd use a non-detergent oil-but I know others will disagree and say detergent oil is perfectly OK.

*(the spin-on filter was fitted as standard from mid-1972, and is a common upgrade for the earlier models)

Just about everything has been covered here some time in the past (some things many, many times over) so it's often worth using the advanced search to read previous discussions on any particular subject.

DogT said:

The brakes are nothing to write home about so be careful.

Dave
69S

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What about if he were to put a siffening kit on the 2LS? Wouldn't that bring them nearly up to disc braking power? That's what was told to me, anyway, whether it's true or not..

Nice starter bike. It looks to me like the seat is the '73 basket weave pattern. Does the frame have a tag on the front of the steering tube? Usually there is a tag there that has the VIN number and the date of manufacture. The VIN may or may not match the number stamped on the left side of the engine and the top of the transmission. These numbers can be helpful in determining years that those three major components are from. Disc brakes where introduced in '72 on the front. A lot of people believe the drum brake looks better and there are vendors who claim that with modern materials that these brakes can be improved greatly.

http://vintagebrake.com/

The above link is not a recommendation. I have seen arguments on this topic and since my bike has a disc I have no first hand knowledge. But you might as well look at the link for informational purposes. (funny when you have to start putting disclaimers on the stuff you post)

You will discover that fiberglass tanks are becoming a problem due to ethanol in fuels. If your tank is fiberglass, you might want to read up on this and start looking for a steel one. The items that seem to be dearest these days are original tanks, side covers and gauges.

As for what it is worth? This is hard to say without closer inspection but it seems that vintage bikes in general have gotten more expensive in the US over the last year due to our dropping dollar. Go figure, but yeah it seems the guys who used to send them here want em back now. You can look at completed auctions on Ebay and see what people are paying for stuff. Nobody here will admit to going that high, so I dunno who these people are.

Recently I put a 750 back on the road that had been sitting for 20 years. I took it down far enough to do the isolastics and a layshaft bearing in the transmission. Serviced the swingarm, front and rear bearings, new seals throughout, rebuilt the brakes, carbs, added electronic ignition and new tires for less than a thousdand bucks. It was a good process because I got into the bike far enough to feel aquainted with most everything short of an engine rebuild and it paid off huge in ridability.

Have fun!

Russ

Another thought, you might want to do a compression test or a leak-down test on the engine to get some idea as to whether or not it is still tight.

Picture of the other side of the bike please. :mrgreen:

Nice find , my 72 was found asleep and rusty in a shed all drafty n' cold in Ottawa ,Canada also a 20 year rumplestiltskin nap situation.No one was willing to pay the owner 2 grand but I did ,took her home and named her "Crazy". You have many adventures in front of you and this forum will help to no end. I tell everyone with a find like this to install a roller layshaft bearing in the gearbox for safety sake . Good luck proceeding. Glass of champagne.

KSUWildcatFan said:

What about if he were to put a siffening kit on the 2LS? Wouldn't that bring them nearly up to disc braking power? That's what was told to me, anyway, whether it's true or not..

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I've had replies all over the place on the brakes on this forum and off too. I arced mine and they are somewhat better first grab. Haven't done the stiffener. Most seem to swear by vintage, but the price is way out there and long time too. OB does it too, but again very pricy. I hang way back behind cars and try not to get into heavy braking situations. Downshifting seems to work better. I am going to try the Commando Specialties high friction pads since one of mine is nearly at the rivet anyhow, RGM product. The rear brake I can lock up, can't ask more than that. I've heard the 2LS can be made to work better than the first disk, but I have yet to see one.

Dave
69S

Nice find! The best advice I can give you is to just get it running as is, without doing any major changes to it. Numerous articles exist on how to wake up a bike that's been in storage for a long time. You don't need to tear down a lot of things, or make any improvements, that will all come in time. I'd remove the oil tank, flush it out throughly with kerosene, clean the gas tank, drain the sump, and see what kind of condition the existing oil is in. That might tell you a lot about how it was stored. Clean the sump filter - if it has one (could possibly be a 71, you have to check the engine number to tell exactly what you have),or, spin on filter if it has one. Remove the rocker covers, do a quick check of the valve clearances., pour some fresh oil in the intake valve cover and let it drain into the engine. Remove and throughly clean both carbs, the pilot jets are probably plugged up. Again, do a search on how to clean them. Get the oil tank to the correct level , and kick the thing over without plugs in it, to make sure you get as much fresh oil into the engine as you can without being too anal about it if you know what I mean. Fresh plugs, clean the points, check for spark, etc. Fresh oil (I'd use 40 or 50W), and fire the thing up. You don't have to embark on the ulimate engine rebuild, or work on the brakes at this time. Make sure they stop, ya know, all that stuff. Just get the thing running, ride it around a bit at lowish speeds in your neigborhood, and check the thing out slowly. That will tell you how you need to proceed. Study all of the applicable posts on this forum, and you will get some insight into what comes next, what needs to be a priority, and what comes later. If the engine or gearbox need rebuilding, you'll know it soon enough. To reiterate, clean fluids, fresh plugs and battery, clean carbs with new kits in them, all safety items attended to (tires, chain, brakes etc - not necessarily new, but check 'em) and give it a go. I've brought back many using these methods. Some were pretty decent as it, others needed a lot more. I've seen a number of people really tear down more than the need to and then lose interest. Take it slow. 'luck

Welcome MikeM, good looking ride!! lotsa good advice and knowledge base here in these threads. Only thing I could add would be to check if the front brake cable has a brake light switch in it. If it does take it out ....i mean get a new cable without one in it. My brother did this with his '70 750 "S"and it helped quite a bit. Cj

Front brake stiffening kit -

I installed this on my personal bike. It greatly increases the front braking power, but you still have to keep the brake adjusted properly. As far as being better than the disc on a '72...maybe on a bone stock unit, but a disc with an upgraded master or modern magura cylinder, skimmed disc, and new pads...no way.

cjandme said:

Welcome MikeM, good looking ride!! lotsa good advice and knowledge base here in these threads. Only thing I could add would be to check if the front brake cable has a brake light switch in it. If it does take it out ....i mean get a new cable without one in it. My brother did this with his '70 750 "S"and it helped quite a bit. Cj

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I know this thread is a bit old but tell me more about this mod. My brake light was sticking on and it turned out was caused by this switch so have pulled one of the wires off for now anyway. I take it this switch adds some extra "give" to it making the brake pull feel a bit spongy and give less pulling force? What do you then do for brake light switch, just rely on the rear switch?

Thanks!

Yep, Rear switch only.....someone else might have more or something different to add, but that's what my brother did back in the day. He replaced the whole cable. Cj
You could keep the old one with the switch in it and put it on when it's time to get it inspected for the DMV registration, then switch it back out afterwards. You may not need to depending on where you live and the rules there.

cjandme said:

Yep, Rear switch only.....someone else might have more or something different to add, but that's what my brother did back in the day. He replaced the whole cable. Cj
You could keep the old one with the switch in it and put it on when it's time to get it inspected for the DMV registration, then switch it back out afterwards. You may not need to depending on where you live and the rules there.

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Or get an Antique plate for it and then you don't have to worry about inspection anymore....at least that's how it works in PA

dirtymartini said:

Or get an Antique plate for it and then you don't have to worry about inspection anymore....at least that's how it works in PA

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Yep, am planning to get an antique plate for it anyway. And will definitely keep the old cable.

Appreciate the tips...this is a great group on this forum!