Need more Tritons

madass140

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The motor in this bike is in the wrong position. If you rode it really fast through a high speed bend, it would scare you and destroy your confidence. The motor needs to be as far forward and down as possible in the featherbed frame. The position of the motor is the reason that a 500cc Manx is better for racing than any Triton.
Al I built that bike over 30 years ago and never had any handling issues. I'm in regular contact with the current owner of the same bike
and he has never mentioned any handling issues, but of course we are not experienced racers.
 
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The frame was made by a guy who used to work for the Triumph factory in England. In about 1948 he got a 12th on the IOM. That frame was slightly longer than a normal Featherbed, but similar in most other details. The handling thing being affected by the motor position is most noticeable in tight high-speed bends. I moved my motor forward an inch until the mounts touched. The handling was better, but was never as good as a 500cc Manx. You probably would not discover the deficiency during normal use of a road bike, unless you got into deep shit in a corner.
I once rode my friend's racing Triton which has a genuine Manx frame with the Triumph motor that inch further back. It was still good but the light airy feeling in corners, did not inspire as much confidence. When you are on the limit with skinny tyres, a lot is about 'feel'. If the bike is positive in corners and tightens it's line under power, you can be far more aggressive - unless you have 100 horsepower.
I don't believe in road race heroes, most of it is about the bikes they are riding. We all adjust to the handling of the bikes we ride.
 
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Theres a picture somewhere in the Aussie Classic Bike Rag , of the Sydney NSW from 800 cc 8n stud Dellorotto
Twin Dunstall disc Triton ( Orange Now ) WITH THE RIDGID CHAINCASE POWERPLANT SPACING .

This gets the Injun right down & low forward ,
And the Gearbox up n aft at the swing arm spindle .

So All 9.999 other Tritons are INCORRECT ! .

P U Triumphs Generally , if arranged so the lower chaincase is something like horizontal ,
The G'Box output shaft near level with the swing arm pivot , set the engine down & canted .

Cording to a olde M C M , throw the Tri in the Norton Plates , and drill another ole ( AMC Trans )
and youll get the injun canted nicely . Easy as that. Any twit should be able to do the front plates .

This also avoids the hineous crme of the pipes low & wide under your hooves , the worst F up imaginable
if your pretenting the renowned roadholding , youd be on your ear . Gronded .

Folding Footrests arnt a bad Idea. Directly under the S/Arm pivot . Aft can induce bump steer . ( Bum Steer ? )
 
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The theory is an excellent motor in an excellent frame creates an excellent bike. No Triton is ever as good as a good Manx. And I love Tritons. That genuine ex-Ginger Molloy 1961 Manx I rode in 1973 would absolutely kill any Triton. ( I could have bought it for $1300 ) I could ride it around corners about 20 MPH faster, even though it was slightly slower down the straights. It is not the sum of the parts, but the whole package which makes a good bike.
 
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Norton-Domiracer.jpg


= The Lap time of a seriously developed Manx in the I.o.M. at the first triout .

domiracer_dunstall_crautumn87_2.jpg
images
Ray-Pickrell.jpg


AND it Won the 68 production T.T.
domiracer+paul+dunstall.jpg


And It'd Obviously be FASTER with a TRIUMPH Engine .

The T100 thingo of mine'd Equal a good ' built ' Manx on the puke a cooe short circuit . Had more left at 130 unstreamlined . Pity I didnt know what I had , at the time . Motorwise .
 
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The first Domiracer had Tom Phillis riding it on the IOM. That might make a difference - he was not your normal rider. My stroked 650cc - short stroke 500cc Triumph engined featherbed was fast if it was wound out for long enough, but it never handled as good as a Manx. And my mate's Triton 650 was slightly worse handling - the motor was about an inch further back, but the motor was faster earlier. With the 1961 Manx I rode, I could have easily creamed both of them on any short circuit. I didn't buy it because I was sick of racing against two-strokes at such a major disadvantage. You can only do that for so long without bending yourself. And a Manx is not cheap to race.
 
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That shot of the Domiracer with the big megaphones fills me with fear. It would not be an easy ride. With the big capacity, it might be OK - but I doubt it. Easy to get launched in slower corners as it comes back on power. These days I only use 2 into 1 pipes - they are much more sane and just as quick, if not quicker.

When I had separate pipes with megaphones on my short stroke Triumph, I simply could not ride it - just bloody dangerous. My brother thought he could ride a motorbike and it took him into the bush off the end of a race circuit - he got all embarrassed.
 
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Fast Eddie

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Al, it takes some doing to make a 500cc Triton unridebale.

Best chassis of its time, and a very docile, easy going motor.

Quite an achievement I’d say.
 
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That 500cc short stroke motor was a destroked 650. Mistake #1, I increased the size of the inlet ports. Mistake #2, I kept the extremely long duration, slow lift-rate cams to increase the height of the usable rev-range and get more power by revving it faster. Mistake #3, I expected too much from the 4-speed close ratio gearbox - I could never gear it so it was right for every part of any circuit I ever raced on. If you geared it high, it was never fast enough coming out of corners - geared low , other bikes would pass it at the ends of the straights. The worst thing was when I tried to race it with megaphone exhausts. It would go sideways whenever it came back on song, especially in fast corners. You are correct about a docile motor in a good handling frame, but it was never that - just savage. With my Seeley, it is a whole different ball game - the difference is laughable, it is so much easier. I can beat anyone with that and I am not joking. If I ever race again in historic races, I will win.
 
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I don't know how Percy Tait ever rode that 500cc Triumph with the A-type motor. It probably also would not have had a decent 6-speed gearbox. The only good thing I can say about the short stroker I had, is that it taught me heaps about road-racing. When I built the Seeley 850 in about 1978, I was able to go straight to a good answer. My problem was I never believed in it, so it was unraced for about 20 years. What you probably do not realise is that when I was racing the 500cc Triton, it was usually in open road races against highly modified Japanese two-strokes. Even an average rider on one could give me a hard time. I had to laugh - when I started to race the Seeley 850 there was a guy there who had the methanol-fuelled T250 Suzuki I had built in the 70s. I ran out of brakes on one tight corner and he got under me, so I had to beat him - and I did. I had once used that Suzuki in a race and beat a good new TZ350 Yamaha with it.
 
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Fast Eddie

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I raced a Dresda Daytona that did nowt below 6,000 and was best between 8,000 and 10,000. I did have a 5 speed Quaife box in it though which made it easier to stay ‘on cam’.

Strictly speaking, probably quite unnecessarily, but super fun!

Until, somewhat predictabley, it handgrenaded ...
 
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The only reasons I stayed with the 500cc Triton for so long, was it was indestructible unless I revved it fast enough to tangle the valves (11,000 RPM) and I enjoyed the adrenalin rush. But it wore me down. After I'd crashed it several times, it used to give me anxiety.
 
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Whenever I see a Triton, the first thing I look at is the frame. Tritons are a fifties' bike. In those days, if you destroyed a Manx motor, Norton would never sell you one. So fitting a Triumph motor was not a bad option. If I had a Slimline frame, I would use a Commando motor in preference to any Triumph motor. You would have a much better bike.
 

Fast Eddie

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Yessir, a Norton Commando engine in a Norton slimline frame would be for a very nice Triton:rolleyes:
 
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When I began to build my Seeley 850, I looked at a 500cc DOHC Jawa Speedway engine from the 1970s. It would have put me up into Historic Period 5 with the Z900 Kawasakis and TZ350 two strokes - so I did not do it. However with that extremely light motor, light chassis and about 60 BHP with lots of torque, as well as 6 close gears - it would have been a weapon.
 
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