Need help identifying Norton model. (2016)

Johnnymac

Johnnymac

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Hi Guys,

Do any of you recognize which year & model Norton this is?

Need help identifying Norton model. (2016)

Need help identifying Norton model. (2016)

Need help identifying Norton model. (2016)
 
Its clearly a plunger framed manx (or perhaps inter) model.
They built em like that as manxs from just after the war until 1950 if its a manx, or until 52 or 53 if its an Inter.

The engine and frame number should tell precisely what it is.
But be aware that past owners are a clever lot, it just could be a more mundane model with a cammy engine slipped into it,
or an Inter thats been manx-ified.

Desireable kit if its available....
 
Rohan said:
Its clearly a plunger framed manx (or perhaps inter) model.
They built em like that as manxs from just after the war until 1950 if its a manx, or until 52 or 53 if its an Inter.

The engine and frame number should tell precisely what it is.
But be aware that past owners are a clever lot, it just could be a more mundane model with a cammy engine slipped into it,
or an Inter thats been manx-ified.

Desireable kit if its available....
Click to expand...

Thanks Rohan. I have not been able to see the bike but the seller may let it go. I still don't have the engine numbers to look up but the seller swears its not an International but a full matching numbers Manx. I am trying to work on a price with the seller but so few of these are ever up for sale that there isn't a good reference point. Any idea what a bike like this would be valued at?
 
kernel65 said:
Here's an early post-war garden gate Manx that sold at Bonhams. Quite pricey...
Click to expand...

Thats fairly cheap, by Manx standards.
Note that the frame doesn't belong....
 
Rohan said:
kernel65 said:
Here's an early post-war garden gate Manx that sold at Bonhams. Quite pricey...
Click to expand...

Thats fairly cheap, by Manx standards.
Note that the frame doesn't belong....
Click to expand...


Re; " Note that the frame doesn't belong...."

I will bow to you superior knowledge, but can you explain why not :?:
 
Bernhard said:
Rohan said:
kernel65 said:
Here's an early post-war garden gate Manx that sold at Bonhams. Quite pricey...
Click to expand...

Thats fairly cheap, by Manx standards.
Note that the frame doesn't belong....
Click to expand...


Re; " Note that the frame doesn't belong...."

I will bow to you superior knowledge, but can you explain why not :?:
Click to expand...

I think he might be referring to the language in the description. It says that the frame has been stamped 3 different times with three different numbers. The MOT says 40M which would have been a 350cc model.
 
I'm kinda confused with the engine numbers on the Manx that I originally posted. The engine number is F11M34114. The "F" would make it a 1951 and the 11M makes it a 500cc Manx. But.... 34114 would make it a 1950 not 1951. 1950 makes sense because in 1951, they were Featherbed frames weren't they?

Does this make sense to anyone?
 
My little Norton booklets list of numbers would make that a 1951 number.
1950 was 25400 to 33305.
The F year letter overrides all anyway, the factory knew what year it was.
Featherbeds were extremely limited supply initially, customer race bikes still got plunger frames.

Note that 1950 and later manxes got the dohc motor, still longstroke, the cam box up under the tank gives the game away.
Bit tricky to see unless the pics show a suitable view.

The frame doesn't match on that other bike because the engine number doesn't match the frame number !!
There could be 1000 legitimate reasons why this may be, but one of them is that it has been cobbled together fron bits.
Previous verifiable racing history and provenance is what gives bikes value, and collectors are paying for.
A race bike is also only as good as its last rebuild, unless its going to be entirely just for show.
 
Definitely a Garden Gate Manx. The cases look to be magnesium and the hubs are definitely Manx.
1950 they switched to featherbed framed machines for the Manx, but certainly some earlier frames still being made.
In all honesty, it's a nice machine, and there would have been plenty of good reasons that frames and motors got swapped around back then. I wouldn't be afraid of any Manx that had mis matched numbers or were Bitsa's. That was commonplace and things wore out or were broken.
Obviously a matching numbers machine would be more valuable to a collector, and any racing machine with provenance, would escalate the value further.
But if the price is good, and you like the bike (which I'm sure you do), then I'd say buy it if you can.

Agreed that any Manx that's been sitting, should be rebuilt / reconditioned, before even an attempt at a start. It would be way more expensive to repair it, than to rebuild it.

I wish you luck, if you're chasing after it. It's a fine machine that any Norton lover, would be proud to own.
 
wilkey113 said:
1950 they switched to featherbed framed machines for the Manx,
.
Click to expand...

Yes and no and not quite.
The plunger framed manxs would already have been well in production for 1950,
since the factory didn't even try the prototype manx - until May was it - at Blandford Camp.

And it then took a while to get them into production for customers, so there wouldn't have been too many of them for another year or so.
And even then they were apparently extremely selective with who got them and who didn't.
There are stories of folks building their own versions, including in aluminium tubing even.
But we diverge, a shade....
 
Thanks for all the replies guys! Much appreciated. I reached out to a Norton manx specialist and he had the following comments from the picture I sent him. It also appears that this in not a matching numbers bike which affects the value.

Need help identifying Norton model. (2016)
 
Rohan said:
But be aware that past owners are a clever lot, it just could be a more mundane model with a cammy engine slipped into it,
or an Inter thats been manx-ified.
Click to expand...

I did warn you.
Without the all important matching numbers, its anyones guess as to whether it could ever be returned to pristine.
If the frame/everything is from that mundane model (very likely), its just a bitsa, and valued accordingly.
This makes it a very dubious purchase, needless to say...
(But fun, if actually used as a road machine ?)
 
Rohan said:
Rohan said:
But be aware that past owners are a clever lot, it just could be a more mundane model with a cammy engine slipped into it,
or an Inter thats been manx-ified.
Click to expand...

I did warn you.
Without the all important matching numbers, its anyones guess as to whether it could ever be returned to pristine.
If the frame/everything is from that mundane model (very likely), its just a bitsa, and valued accordingly.
This makes it a very dubious purchase, needless to say...
(But fun, if actually used as a road machine ?)
Click to expand...


Thanks guys. The bike was apparently built/restored by a guy names Beno Rodi. Anyone know who Beno is? I found a number online for Beno and left a voicemail. I'll let you know if I hear anything.
 
Johnnymac said:
Rohan said:
Rohan said:
But be aware that past owners are a clever lot, it just could be a more mundane model with a cammy engine slipped into it,
or an Inter thats been manx-ified.
Click to expand...

I did warn you.
Without the all important matching numbers, its anyones guess as to whether it could ever be returned to pristine.
If the frame/everything is from that mundane model (very likely), its just a bitsa, and valued accordingly.
This makes it a very dubious purchase, needless to say...
(But fun, if actually used as a road machine ?)
Click to expand...


Thanks guys. The bike was apparently built/restored by a guy names Beno Rodi. Anyone know who Beno is? I found a number online for Beno and left a voicemail. I'll let you know if I hear anything.
Click to expand...

We I four out who Beno is. He is a very well respected Brit bike racer and builder. He was actually on American Pickers a few years ago. I found a telephone number for him but it goes to a voicemail. Anyone know Beno?
 
You need to trim the quotes in quotes in quotes !

Have you been advised of the frame number
Or the owner suggested a possible value.?

To be fair to Beno, if an owner turned up with a manx motor and a sidevalve/ohv frame and asked him to put them together,
he looks to have done a pretty fair job of it.
Obviously it won't be entirely to catalog spec or concours finish.
But there is a reason why immaculate manxs bring some very hefty pricetags.
And why building replica or look-a-like manxs is such a popular pasttime...
 
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