Motorcycle Formula One

acotrel

acotrel

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I have been watching an economist on TV. He mentioned the new networking paradigm which is replacing vertical integration, I get the impression that one day computer games might have the ability to kill the players.
What seems to be missed is that in my opinion, life is about having fun. I cannot imagine ever racing an electric motorcycle. I might be sick, but when the motor starts making that noise and the bike vibrates, I have to start riding it.
The nicest motorcycle I ever rode, was a 1961 500 cc Manx Norton. I think the Lansdowne series is really beautiful. If we had races which specialised in two-valve single cylinder four stroke, we would be able to build our racers from scratch and be competitive.
One of my friends is 83 and is now in hospital dying of cancer. He built a CB125 Honda into a very respectable little racer. But it was never going to be anything - there was never a race class for it.
If we had the four race classes we had in the fifties and excluded two-strokes and multies, we might actually hve a set of fun race classes.

 
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Electric vehicles are coming into their own, theirs no ignoring it. Two stroke vs four stroke, or 2 valve vs. 4 valve...….shoot, the new guys will probably be talking A/C vs D/C or brushless motors vs ????
 
acotrel said:
I have been watching an economist on TV. He mentioned the new networking paradigm which is replacing vertical integration, I get the impression that one day computer games might have the ability to kill the players.
What seems to be missed is that in my opinion, life is about having fun. I cannot imagine ever racing an electric motorcycle. I might be sick, but when the motor starts making that noise and the bike vibrates, I have to start riding it.
The nicest motorcycle I ever rode, was a 1961 500 cc Manx Norton. I think the Lansdowne series is really beautiful. If we had races which specialised in two-valve single cylinder four stroke, we would be able to build our racers from scratch and be competitive.
One of my friends is 83 and is now in hospital dying of cancer. He built a CB125 Honda into a very respectable little racer. But it was never going to be anything - there was never a race class for it.
If we had the four race classes we had in the fifties and excluded two-strokes and multies, we might actually hve a set of fun race classes.

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Al I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:

Building a race bike correctly, to a high standard AND TO THE RULES is as much about racing as riding one.

If someone spends all that time, money and effort building a motorcycle, and THEN finds out there is no class for it, that’s their own fault and certainly not the race bodies !
 
Fast Eddie said:
Al I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:

Building a race bike correctly, to a high standard AND TO THE RULES is as much about racing as riding one.

If someone spends all that time, money and effort building a motorcycle, and THEN finds out there is no class for it, that’s their own fault and certainly not the race bodies !
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I draw a parallel with (it's the journey not the destination), in the end he built a cracking bike. Many times have I stood looking at the finished article and thought, what now?
 
Al's#5 said:
I draw a parallel with (it's the journey not the destination), in the end he built a cracking bike. Many times have I stood looking at the finished article and thought, what now?
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No arguments there. And if its the journey he wanted to enjoy then mission accomplished I’d say.

But building a random bike and then being disappointed no one has a class that coincidentally suits it is a bit of a DUH moment as my daughters would say !
 
I can't see myself riding a 125cc road racer or an electric motorcycle. I know I'm sick. No sense pretending I'm not.

My neighbor comes over and tells me I need to get an electric motorcycle. He usually does that right after I start the Norton.

I watched the prototype electric road races at Laguna Seca between MotoGP or WSB sessions years back. Sloooow. Apparently they scoot right along now.

The AHRMA Sound of Thunder races in the USA appear to be sort of what you are thinking about.

I'll take the journey (build) any day. I never was the faster gun. Competitive racing didn't call to me to be anything other than a spectator. I spent the money I would have spent on racing on camera equipment. RIP Nicky

Motorcycle Formula One
 
Whilst your neighbour is keen for you to get an electric motorcycle... he’d probably be quite happy if you got a pair of silencers (mufflers) instead ;)
 
Some people are born competitive, we are the human RACE after all, no? Throughout history that mentality has fuelled all manner of weird and wonderful events, and kept the betting industry quids in!
Personally I fail to see the fascination of running round in a circle (or a straight line, for that matter) Got all that out of my system at primary school, yet industries thrive on it and the masses will watch entranced....
 
Fast Eddie said:
No arguments there. And if its the journey he wanted to enjoy then mission accomplished I’d say.

But building a random bike and then being disappointed no one has a class that coincidentally suits it is a bit of a DUH moment as my daughters would say !
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He is on love with small Japanese road race motorcycles and decided he had to have one. Even if he had bought a factory bike, there would be no race class to suit it in Australia. It would also be a waste of space.
When you road race a motorcycle, the difference in top speed between the winner and second place is often walking speed. If you are having fun, does it really matter if that top speed is not 200 MPH ?
I think what is happening with superbikes is silly stuff. The cost of that racing is absurd, so very few people do it. Because of the speeds involved, the insurance costs alone are a killer.

Close-Up: John Hopkins' Moto Rapido Panigale R - YouTube
 
I suggest that with all the improvements in technology and our brave new world, there must still be room for having fun, even if you are not a billionaire.
When I ride a motorcycle, I always ride it near it's limit. That is the reason I do not ride on public roads and I do not road race a modern motorcycle. My Seeley 850 is fast enough to kill you. And it is much cheaper to race. The problem is our current mindset is changing the world, and a lot of people don't know how to have fun without spending heaps of money.
On Youtube, I would rather watch a Lansdowne series race, than a British Superbike race. If you watch those on-board superbike videos, have you noticed how narrow the ends of the straights look when the rider is doing those high speeds.
 
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1. Small displacement racing is pretty cool from an engineering perspective in the effort put into squeezing as much HP out of a small engine
2. Racing is really a marketing arm. Nobody builds small displacement bikes anymore because everyone wants large displacement engines and big HP (even though they probably wouldn't know what to do with it)
3. Electric cars can blow the doors off of gas cars.
 
Arm Chair riding a Norton near its limit isn't difficult IMO. Doing it sitting on the seat of a modern 200HP liter bike is a bit more difficult. Roller skates are fast enough to kill ya.

Nice thing about riding low power light weight close to the ground motorcycles like a 125cc Honda is you can ring the bike's neck and whip it through the turns without worrying that much about getting killed. Definitely would be a good class to race in if one is small enough and young enough.

Last time I looked the less expensive Dodge Hellcat is around 1 second faster in a 1/4 mile than a Tesla S. Fuel still rules with show room cars.
 
TomU said:
1. Small displacement racing is pretty cool from an engineering perspective in the effort put into squeezing as much HP out of a small engine
2. Racing is really a marketing arm. Nobody builds small displacement bikes anymore because everyone wants large displacement engines and big HP (even though they probably wouldn't know what to do with it)
3. Electric cars can blow the doors off of gas cars.
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When I was a kid, a dealer offered to sell me a new 250cc Moto Parilla production racer, which as the real deal. In those days, most of us would not even consider racing a small capacity bike. The silly thing is that the top speed might be lower, but the risks are still similar. I think it was Bruno Spaggiari who was killed while racing a 125cc MV Agusta on the IOM.
 
Small displacement racing is interesting not just from an engineering perspective, but also from a racing perspective. You need to keep the engine in the power band at all times (no torque) so that means a lot of shifts. You also need to maintain momentum (again no torque) so that changes your decisions on the track (getting on the brakes not only slows you down but it kills your momentum)
 
The thing which puzzles me, are the guys who need 200 BHP to get their jollies. It is extremely difficult and expensive to build a superbike from scratch, and full credit to those who do it. But building a single cylinder four-stroke racer from scratch, can almost be done in your own back yard. When I was a kid, some guys built 125 cc and 250cc single cylinder racers, in which every component was hand-made. I never understood why they did that. But now I see sense in it. There was one bike in particular - the Hunter Picaninny was a 250cc Manx. And I think the REG was a small Velocette.
 
acotrel said:
The thing which puzzles me, are the guys who need 200 BHP to get their jollies.
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And 200 HP bikes are relatively cheap. A new CBR1000RR is like $16k US and is nearly 190 HP. And i bet a majority of people who buy these things don't track them
 
But speaking of cool small displacement bikes.

Motorcycle Formula One


1967 Suzuki RS67 125-4​

90 degree V4. Peak power 42 BHP at 16,500 revs, 12 gears, 340 bhp/litre, top speed 137 mph, dry sump gearbox with forced lubication from a trochoidal pump. 95kg weight. Banned after FIM changed the rules and limited 125s to 2 cylinders.
 
acotrel said:
The thing which puzzles me, are the guys who need 200 BHP to get their jollies.
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Some jollies perspective: I've owned a few modern liter sporty bikes. I wasn't racing on a track though. Plenty of open rural hilly infrequently patrolled roads to play on near my home at the time. I never thought that much about the HP. I just liked the affordable engineering, acceleration, and excellent brakes. I could ride them, and they really were a lot of fun. Anyone in shape with the right amount of experience should be able to enjoy riding a bike engineered to complement a high HP engine.

If I were 35 years younger, I'd get a kick out of riding Hopkin's bike. I'm sure it would scare the hell out of me, but I'd be smiling in terror.
 
I have raced a fair bit during my life. I would not dream of riding a modern sports bike around Winton Raceway. I am under no illusions about what would happen. One of my friends was THE top A grade rider in Victoria when Manx Nortons were the go. He recently went to Winton with Robbie Phillis and Mick Hone and got on Phillis's Katana. He got into the sweeper too fast. It did not matter if he braked or accelerated, he was going to crash. He accelerated and got around - JUST !
I think that if you rode Hopkin's bike, you would need to be prepared to accept injuries as being normal. It would be OK as long as the arrangement was not 'you bend it, you mend it'.
 
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TomU said:
But speaking of cool small displacement bikes.

View attachment 20511

1967 Suzuki RS67 125-4​

90 degree V4. Peak power 42 BHP at 16,500 revs, 12 gears, 340 bhp/litre, top speed 137 mph, dry sump gearbox with forced lubication from a trochoidal pump. 95kg weight. Banned after FIM changed the rules and limited 125s to 2 cylinders.
Click to expand...

An RS125 Honda will beat most bikes around Winton Raceway. The lap record was held for years by a TZ250. Anything which is bigger is usually too fast and ungainly. A lot of the guys on big bikes bounce off the ripple strips.
 
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