More Triumph trouble for Garner...

worntorn said:

I found several listings for the Norton full of fuel etc. at 448 to 454 curb weight. So it sounds like it is about 50 lbs lighter than the old Bonnie, quite a lot, but not surprising given that the old Bonnie was a very inexpensive machine compared to the Norton. And the old Thruxton was just a dressed up Bonnie whereas this Thruxton R is a totally different machine than the T120, different frame, different engine internals and high spec suspension and braking components.
Will have to see what Dec 7 brings, this is an all new machine with alloy swing arm and lightened crank. Triumph seems to be surpassing expectations with this bike, hopefully they can continue. They do know how to build light if they decide to (Daytona 675)

Glen

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Glen are you sure the Thruxton is a different frame? I've not read that anywhere yet.

There's no doubt the old Bonnie is way (weigh?!) too heavy for what it is. I really hope Triumph have addressed that.

Fast Eddie said:

worntorn said:

I found several listings for the Norton full of fuel etc. at 448 to 454 curb weight. So it sounds like it is about 50 lbs lighter than the old Bonnie, quite a lot, but not surprising given that the old Bonnie was a very inexpensive machine compared to the Norton. And the old Thruxton was just a dressed up Bonnie whereas this Thruxton R is a totally different machine than the T120, different frame, different engine internals and high spec suspension and braking components.
Will have to see what Dec 7 brings, this is an all new machine with alloy swing arm and lightened crank. Triumph seems to be surpassing expectations with this bike, hopefully they can continue. They do know how to build light if they decide to (Daytona 675)

Glen

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Glen are you sure the Thruxton is a different frame? I've not read that anywhere yet.

There's no doubt the old Bonnie is way (weigh?!) too heavy for what it is. I really hope Triumph have addressed that.

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Yes, as compared to the T120 the Thruxton has a sharper steering head angle for quicker turn in and also the alloy swing arm. There may be other differences as well.

You sure the rake difference isn't just due to the jacked up rear and lowered front stance of the bike ?

Fast Eddie said:

You sure the rake difference isn't just due to the jacked up rear and lowered front stance of the bike ?

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For now it's just what I've read , no idea how accurate the articles are. A couple of articles state that the Thruxtons get a sport bike head stock angle whereas the T120 gets a more raked out angle for easy cruising. No specifics, it might only be a degree or two.
Not a big deal for Triumph when you think of all the different models/configurations they now build.

Glen

Smaller front wheel and different yoke would easily make up the steeper angle. Don't believe nuthin until we know more.

New bikes are at the LA IBS. Someone should head over to Long Beach and check them out for us.

From SportRider mag an article on the Thruxtons- " With a dedicated chassis and fully uprated suspension for stunning handling and agility, and on the Thruxton R, a higher specification of equipment taking the ride to the next level."

From Motorcycle.com.


While the information on how Triumph sharpened the handling of the Thruxton is scarce, we know, thanks to information from the chief engineer, that the Thruxton and the R have significantly steeper sub-23° rake. Also, one of the few specifications revealed at the unveiling is that both front and rear wheels will be 17-in. spoked units wearing Pirelli Diablo Rosso Corsa skins.

So for now the claim is a different head stock angle, but you are correct, this info might be proven wrong at a later date. If we take the suspicious approach, who really believes these engines are going to be 1200 CC water cooled six speeders as claimed in these same articles?
Can't trust em, it's probably the same old AC 865 going in and all of the fuss is over nothing! :mrgreen:


Glen

BPHORSEGUY said:

Glen I am not going to knock the "R" as I call it, since I just put a deposit on one and got an E-mail from Triumph confirming my Gold cover 15 minutes after placing the deposit, ( very impressive ) ! But I have spent hours pouring over enlarged photos and I see no carbon fiber or machined from solid billet hand fitted parts! And based on the 2015 models that were made in the same factory by the same people, paint and fit and finish just will not approach the Norton.
!

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Check out these close ups from Jack Lilley. The riding view of the fork top clamp, bar ends, riser clip ons is perfect. You will have to customise your Norton 961 lot$ to get it to this level. Nothing wrong with the finish on the 961 in this area, but as supplied with the rabbit ear mirrors,etc , it is pretty generic looking.

I'm glad Triumph avoided the current trend to screw on bits of exposed carbon fibre everywhere. The previous owner of my 955i clearly couldn't get enough of the stuff and bought every gaudy , expensive little bit of it that Triumph would sell to him. I'm thinking of having those bits painted, as it is just plastic afterall.
Once BMW gets the cost of carbon fibre reduced 90 % as planned, the exposed "houndstooth" look of the fibre will be gone, it will be painted like all other cheap plastics. For some of us, that'll be a nicer appearance.

My local dealership is now sold out of their 2016 quota for the Thruxton R. Looks like Triumph could have priced them a bit higher, but who knows, maybe that would kill the goose?

Glen

https://jacklilleytriumph.wordpress.com ... hruxton-r/

Definitely, the Thrux R is a pretty machine.
The standard Thrux front end looks a bit more old school café though.
Triumph was very successful at keeping hoses out of view too.
Overall, Hinckley boys did a damn good job on these new bikes.

Well gents, I just got back from the motorcycle show in Birmingham, England.

First thing to say is that Triumph had one of the biggest stands there, and it was by far the busiest, these new Bonnies have caused a storm.

I can also say that the bikes are better in the metal than they are in pictures. The T120 black and the Thruxtons being my favourites still.

Interesting thing about the Thruxtons is that the riding position is actually really quite tame, and a pillion seat package is available as an option, so I am personally no clearer as to whether the T120 or Thruxton fits my needs best! I would personally struggle to justify the extra cost of the R over the base Thruxton or T120, but it was definitely the main attention grabber there today.

The standard of finish of all variants is fantastic, Triumph have upped their game big style with these bikes and I stand strongly by this threads title... I will hit Norton sales, of that there can be no doubt.

These bikes are going to be a huge hit.

Fast Eddie said:

Interesting thing about the Thruxtons is that the riding position is actually really quite tame,.............

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I figured the Thrux would be comfortable given the elevated clip-ons Triumph used.
They place the rider's hands at about the same level as a good set of drag bars, or M bars.
I like the standard Thrux look a little better. Its frontend is a bit more retro/café style than the R's USD forks.

Good news.

BritTwit said:

Fast Eddie said:

Interesting thing about the Thruxtons is that the riding position is actually really quite tame,.............

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I figured the Thrux would be comfortable given the elevated clip-ons Triumph used.
They place the rider's hands at about the same level as a good set of drag bars, or M bars.
I like the standard Thrux look a little better. Its frontend is a bit more retro/café style than the R's USD forks.

Good news.

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I surprised myself with this but, I agree with you, I actually prefer the looks of the base Thruxton too!

However guys, there is one area where (in my opinion) Norton scores over the new Bonnevilles...

The new Bonnies are all made in Thailand...

I know, I know, we are a global economy and all that, but I think this is a negative, quite a big one actually.

Some times things mean something to us, Harley's have to be made in the US, Ducati's have to be made in Italy, the French shouldn't be allowed to make anything, and Triumph's should be made in England. That's just the way it is.

And before any of you get imaginative with your replies, don't bother as my wife beat you to it years ago telling me that I'm stubborn, old fashioned, even bigoted, but that's also just the way it is!

Fast Eddie said:

And before any of you get imaginative with your replies, don't bother as my wife beat you to it years ago telling me that I'm stubborn, old fashioned, even bigoted, but that's also just the way it is!

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That is a perfect out! And the wife always knows these things. :twisted:

We could have Triumph build the bikes in the UK.
But then they would want the price as a 961.
You can't win!

BritTwit said:

We could have Triumph build the bikes in the UK.
But then they would want the price as a 961.
You can't win!

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I am a manufacturing engineer trained by Toyota. I know that that is simply not true...

Why else would a company like Triumph, a company I'm sure that is well aware of the importance their brand name to nation of origin brings, farm out the production of their bikes to a low wage, low tax, low environmental control region in Asia?
Cost benefit?

Country of Origin is a tricky subject, made trickier by a Bonneville built in Thailand.

A good friend of mine , Tony, was born and raised in London, England. In England he rode a Series A Meteor and later a Triumph Thunderbird.
He came to Canada in his 20s and eventually became the Yamaha Regional Manager for the entire Western half of North America , a big job with a big salary. He got back into Vincents and had several over the years. He is now retired from Yamaha . He sold his Vincent twin a couple of months ago for a very large dollar and planned to use some of the proceeds to purchase a new or near new motorcycle. A dealer friend lent him a Kawasaki Versys, a top heavy hideous but reliable jetski of a motorcycle. Tony rode it for a couple of days and then was making noises about buying it.

He has been injured 4 times by losing balance at slow speed on his Yamaha 850 TDM, another hideous , top heavy reliable machine, so I tried to talk him into buying a T100 Hinckley Bonneville instead. The last fall off the TDM occurred while fueling up. He received a broken rib and dislocated shoulder. He was at least a year recovering from those injuries.

I found a ridiculously good deal on a private sale 2014 T100 that had just 140 kms, nubbies still on the tires.
He went for it but recently mused that he was still unsure if a British bike could match the reliability of an Asian made bike.
I haven't yet told him that his bike was indeed made in Asia. It will be interesting to see the response. :mrgreen:

Glen

BritTwit said:

Why else would a company like Triumph, a company I'm sure that is well aware of the importance their brand name to nation of origin brings, farm out the production of their bikes to a low wage, low tax, low environmental control region in Asia?
Cost benefit?

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Of course, you are right, that IS why they do it.

But my point is, they don't need to, here's some points to ponder:

If Triumph needed to build bikes in Thailand to make a profit... why is most of the rest of the range, which are in highly cost competitive categories, still produced in the UK?

The UK now produces more cars, at a higher profit, than ever before. Most of the companies involved are (sadly) not UK owned, but production is in the UK, and is very successful.

Two of the most productive automotive plants in Europe are in the UK.

The automotive world is extremely competitive and high labour content, so the above two points are actually very interesting and telling.

Outsourcing to low cost countries is short sighted. Instead of driving out the waste in their processes, companies are just relocating the waste!

Low cost countries do not stay low cost! Then companies have to either lose the cost advantage, or relocate again. I recently worked for a client who were looking to relocate for the 4th time in 12 years! That is damned expensive. And very disruptive. And not very smart.

The cost of relocation is usually not properly accounted for. Neither is the cost of long and complex supply chains. A factory in Thailand to supply the Asian market IS a smart idea. A factory in Thailand to supply a global market with a British branded product is not.

Being British is actually an important part of the Triumph brand (hence their extensive use of the Union Flag). Think what would happen to Harley sales, and brand, if they imported their bikes into US from Thailand.

Nevertheless, irrespective of all of the above, the new Bonnies WILL be a huge success. It just seems a shame I think. And whichever way you look at it, its (at least) one point to Norton!

At least with the Norton , owners can contact UK email addresses and phone numbers when problems crop up.
From what we've seen, there might not be any response for a very long time, but at least it's a good old British snub rather than a foreign snub! :mrgreen:

Glen

worntorn said:

there might not be any response for a very long time, but at least it's a good old British snub rather than a foreign snub! :mrgreen:

Glen

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Glen,
So true.
Things are changing though with better communications between Norton UK, and the US Distributor and dealers here. At one time (not that long ago) it was far easier for US dealers to go directly to Norton UK, or UK dealers to get parts, rather than go through the US Distributor.
Thankfully it is getting better over here.
Norton is leaning, and that's the key to survival.