Discussion in 'Norton Motorcycles (Modern)' started by Fast Eddie, Dec 20, 2014.
I guess you will have to go out and by one Ed.
Why? Because its a little quicker? A two minute ride determined that comment? I usually like this guys vids because he's kind of funny, but that was the comment of a pompous ass. Put them side by side.
That video had a lot of WTF, but then I realized it was probably California... :roll:
In fairness to the Norton 961, he tested it awhile ago and thought it was "fun". He's now ridden the Triumph and declared it "F'ng fun" which is obviously a higher rating. Now the Norton has slid to a rating of " A F'ng piece of crap"
So I'm not sure what he is basing all of this on, surely not the two minute ride up and down the hill on the Triumph or his short ride on the Norton.
I've not ridden the Norton so I can't comment on it's handling . The Triumph is the best handling bike I've ever ridden other than possibly the Featherbed Norton 650SS. It's hard to compare the two because the power difference is so great.
From a power perspective, I can't see how the 961 could come close to the 1200 Triumph in reality. A1200 ccs Watercooled OHC 8 valve 6 speed against 960cc aircooled pushrod 4 valve 5 speed is not a fair fight. That doesn't make the Norton a piece of crap anymore than the Triumph makes my 850 Commando into a piece of crap.
Some of the many mechanical problems encountered by the 961 owners and the lacklustre factory response could qualify the Norton for such a rating, but I don't think he is aware of that side of things, only the "fun" rating.
Really. You are correct in the "unfair" assessment. If it were just speed and handling, would it be fair to compare the new Thruxton to a Ducati Monster 1200S? I've ridden that bike and it has mental telepathy for handling and 145 HP. Of course not. Its as good as you like it. Does it fill the niche that a person is looking for? Side by side, Norton equipped these bikes with much higher quality components. than most.
That guy is a Triumph fan boy if you watch all his other videos, and rode both bikes almost exactly 1 year apart for less then 15 minutes. The seat was killing his bony ass on the Norton, his words not mine. You cannot have fun with a sore ass, and that is what is driving his assessment. Talk to someone who owns both if you want an honest opinion and "no dog in the fight" And no sore ass!
The Triumph has several reports over 3 different forums of paint chipping off (including a dime size piece ) and plating coming off, all documented with photos. Mine is no different, I am afraid to touch it. One dealer said to not wash it for 3 months because the paint has to setup, I am not going to wash my new bike for the summer!!!! There are reports of stalling, bad fueling and ticking sounds and instruments fogging internally. All of these reports are on very low mileage or even the first ride. Triumph has a much better dealer network with parts and accessories more available. The Triumph rides, handles and stops great, just as it should!
As to the engines both bikes are in the same class. In my opinion the Norton needs a less constricted pipe and re-mapping before the engine can be assessed, not so the Triumph, but this is quick and easy to do and maps are free! They are in that niche where they have enough power to be super fun on any street legal situation ( and then some ). This class is where Ducati and others sell 10's of thousands of bikes, not superbikes. The superbikes usually go to much less experienced and younger riders who believe every mag and video they see and are certain they can outride Marquez or Rossi anyday.
As far as the Norton goes they are a handmade exotic. Most were assembled very well but there are documented cases of problems. Most get a good one some don't.
The engine is air cooled and that is huge to me. There is not another one within 100 miles of me, it draws crowds and is noticed everywhere. Its handles great has enough power, and superb brakes. It is the 29th bike I have owned in over 45 years and though not the reason I bought it the Norton makes me feel more special then any other bike including the Triumph, and I have had the best of the best of the 80"s, 90"s and 2000"s The fit, finish, paint and components are second to none! Many who want to compare do not have the means to buy or maintain this bike. To them I say buy the Triumph or an R Nine T. I want one true Exotic in my garage.
There are several other bikes that can do the same job as my Thruxton, 2 are in my garage right now! I cannot say that about the Norton, it is in a class by itself!
Yep, it is, the guy is associated with a set of California BMW/KTM/Triumph/Vespa dealers...kind of mindblowing that they would publicly associate themselves with such unprofessional stuff (on this video and his others).
Wonder if the 4 manufacturers are aware of the language and other nonsense in the videos??
You're a cheeky monkey Mr Eddie! But thanks for the very informative link, I really enjoyed that thoughtful and insightful review lol. Me thinks this might be more suitable as your profile avatar :lol:
Buy what you want and can afford!
BPHORSEGUY. Thank you for the detailed and honest comparison. That means a lot to me, a person that has had his fair share of problems with the Norton that, although at times frustrated, am determined to work the bugs out. This, especially from a guy that just bought a Thruxton R. I hope you enjoy it and it does not experienced every problem you've read about in the other forums. I'm sure its a great bike, but the reviewer in the video can't seem to make up his mind on what he likes. Entertaining videos, but the guys a douche bag.
If this Triumph gives me the kind of problems I've read about with too many 961s, even late models, it'll be gone.
Even if there are minor problems like paint chipping too easily, if Triumph doesn't take care of it, someone else can have the bike.
So far it runs and works flawlessly, but early days, of course.
I'm not nearly as tolerant as you fellows are. I will have learned my lesson and gone back to the 47 Vincent that presently sits dejected in the corner.
In the 55,000 miles I've ridden it on two continents it has required nothing more than routine maintenance (cheap) plus two speedo cables. And the seller said it had close to half a million miles and multiple rebuilds on it when I bought it!
It is the 38 th bike that they built after WW2 and it has had seven owners to date, all enthusiastic riders.
I don't think maintenance on a new bike should be costly, even if it is deemed " an exotic"
I expect a new machine to at least be as reliable as a 70 year old one that has seen continuous use for all those decades.
Seriously? Does that old bike pop wheelies on command, have ABS or traction control or have to meet any emissions standards? Complexity has a cost and that sometimes can be problems. It happens. If it happens to your bike I'll let you know where to deliver it to. :mrgreen:
No, but it did outrun an agressive rider on an 03 Guzzi 1100 across on an Eighty mile run across Vancouver Island last summer. The Guzzi rider was an ex- Westwood racer. All the way up the west coast of the Island he was complaining about how slow our old bikes were and that he was accustomed to a "modern pace"
Truth is it was rather slow a group of seven with a couple of very relaxed riders. Also the road was jammed with vacation traffic making passing difficult.
Then at Port Renfrew the Guzzi man and I left the traffic and slow riders behind on the twisty bumpy cross island road. He had thrown the gauntlet down, so I made sure that he wasn't held up by a Vincent. :mrgreen:
Regarding the Triumph - I don't want to give you false hope Dave. It's pretty unlikely that the bike will be a lemon. It's more likely to be trouble free like my Daytona or a great many Bonneville 865s.
I won't get rid of it just because it may need a free computer update or some such thing, but I wouldn't hang in there patiently waiting years for a fix to major mechanical items as some of the 961 owners have.
And I do believe it should be at least as reliable as the Vincent has been. If the electronic systems incorporated in the bike make it less reliable than something built in 1947, then perhaps those systems aren't ready for production.
It's been said that every electronic system on the new Thruxton has already been proven in use by Triumph on their other models. I'm not expecting any big problems.
Cheeky...? Moi...? Never...!
I should point out that I only shared this information with the aim of furthering our collective knowledge.
And that I in no way share, or endorse, the testers opinions.
After all, I have never ridden either of the bikes involved !
And where did you get that picture of me...?!
I've been watching a lot of the youtube vids of the Thruxton. Some with the V and H exhaust, which, like the Norton, is quite pricey. They don't seem like much of an upgrade in decibels and depth. Video doesn't really capture a true audio, but they still sound a bit tame to me. Good marketing on Triumphs part. By the time your done with all of the toys, you're pushing over 20K.
Good point Britfan.
I know the R is probably a good buy IF you want the upgrades, but I'm starting to think I a) prefer the looks of the none R and b) simply don't need those upgrades.
I also agree that the V&H aren't cheap, but it won't be long before the rest of the after market gang get on board. So it should, I hope, mean that a decent Thrux can be nailed together for somewhat less than that.
The sound of the bike with the stock exhaust is great, but a lot of people can't wait to start spending and changing their new toy. I'm enjoying all of the power and acceleration without ear splitting noise.
BPhorse may have found his Thruxton R to be unremarkable in performance, but quite a number of us other owners are very impressed by it.
My Honda RC51 riding friend wondered how it compared to his bike for power in that 3-6 k range where he tells me the RC51 is supreme among Sportbikes.
We looked up the comparitive dyno charts and found that the Thrux has on average about 1/3 more output than the RC in this zone.
And it just happens to be the zone we ride in a lot, even with higher revving Sportbikes.
So I don't get the immediate need for attempts at power upgrades ( a lot of them make more noise and less power), sound level increases with a corresponding $ outlay.
Something I might look at in the future would be fabbing up a near zero cost cat delete done here in the shop, provided Triumph has the map to go along with that and it is not outrageously expensive.
Don't the V&H accessory exhausts ditch the cat unit?
Triumph certainly have to provide the replacement maps for those systems.
Your dealer should be able to provide it.
My understanding is that the Vance and Hines slip ons for road use must keep the cat to be legal.
There is also a complete decat, not road legal system available and there is a map for that. I don't want the noise and expense of that.
My hope would be to alter the existing exhaust to get rid of the cat. I could put up with a little more noise that would inevitably come from removing the cat. The main purpose in doing this is to get 15 pounds off without having to change my eating habits.
There again, the bike feels very light to handle as it is, so it's me being one of those owners who must change it even though it's working great as delivered.
I know, I have the same compulsion.
Don't you just hate people like that?