More Norton history?

Just did a little more research to find, which I was unaware of, that AMC owned AJS and Matchless and later Norton. Had wondered what the connection was and why they had discussion about these bikes on here also. Have watched the video that the creator titles the ten bankruptcies of Norton. My Norton, which was fairly recently acquired is my first Brit bike. Waited a long time and finally have one at my past senior citizen age. Being from the U.S. and researching Norton's history, I continue to find info that I was totally unaware of. The whole history of British motorcycle production seems to have been pretty volatile from about the 50s and going forward. Seems like, comparatively, the Japanese bike makers have been pretty constant from the time they started producing bikes to current day.

Norton were primarily interested in road racing - they sold road bikes for finance. Only 'name' riders could buy a Manx, and nobody could buy a motor on its own. When car guys did 500cc racing, they used to buy a complete second hand Manx to get the motor. That is how Tritons happened. In about 1963, the TD1 Yamahas appeared, and the guys did not need to buy a Manx to be competitive.

Different societies and cultures . Different business laws between cultures and countries .

quawk said:

Just did a little more research to find, which I was unaware of, that AMC owned AJS and Matchless and later Norton. Had wondered what the connection was and why they had discussion about these bikes on here also. Have watched the video that the creator titles the ten bankruptcies of Norton. My Norton, which was fairly recently acquired is my first Brit bike. Waited a long time and finally have one at my past senior citizen age. Being from the U.S. and researching Norton's history, I continue to find info that I was totally unaware of. The whole history of British motorcycle production seems to have been pretty volatile from about the 50s and going forward. Seems like, comparatively, the Japanese bike makers have been pretty constant from the time they started producing bikes to current day.

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the main difference being that the Brits were ‘managing’ decline, while the Japs were consistently improving quality and designs.

Britain was bankrupt after WWII. It had used everything it had, then borrowed more. There was no debt relief, grants or charitable investment for the Victor. Industry had to make do. No money to invest in tooling and infrastructure.

Al
Please read a book! Anything about Nortons history. They built road bikes, racing was to sell the road bikes!

Mart UK said:

Britain was bankrupt after WWII. It had used everything it had, then borrowed more. There was no debt relief, grants or charitable investment for the Victor. Industry had to make do. No money to invest in tooling and infrastructure.

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Indeed.

The entire wealth of the British Empire, and more, was spent on two world wars.

And all of that spending was in one shop… USA Inc !

So… over a 30 year period, the ENTIRE wealth of the British Empire, PLUS debt that took over 60 years to pay off, went to USA Inc.

It’s quite amazing when you think about such a massive financial / power shift.

Fast Eddie said:

Indeed.

The entire wealth of the British Empire, and more, was spent on two world wars.

And all of that spending was in one shop… USA Inc !

So… over a 30 year period, the ENTIRE wealth of the British Empire, PLUS debt that took over 60 years to pay off, went to USA Inc.

It’s quite amazing when you think about such a massive financial / power shift.

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War is expensive, 2 World Wars extremely expensive.

Fast Eddie said:

Indeed.

The entire wealth of the British Empire, and more, was spent on two world wars.

And all of that spending was in one shop… USA Inc !

So… over a 30 year period, the ENTIRE wealth of the British Empire, PLUS debt that took over 60 years to pay off, went to USA Inc.

It’s quite amazing when you think about such a massive financial / power shift.

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Are we complaining here?

850cmndo said:

Are we complaining here?

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Not at all, just a historic observation. And a recognition of a pretty masterful strategic move by the US.
Britain would almost certainly have done exactly the same had the roles been reversed !

I suggest the biggest problem the British have is their class system. However, we in Australia do not do any better. The ethos about quality management systems began in the UK with BS4891 during WW2, and Deming took it to Japan. America was always the best at industrial engineering. The Japanese got the best of both worlds. To succeed it takes a certain mindset. But then we need to think about what we are achieving in the bigger picture.
I suggest the British have the greatest hope of achieving common decency. I do not know why I like British motorcycles so much, because I don't like British cars. A P51 Mustang is probably better than any Spitfire, but it does not give ne the same feeling.

Spitfire? As I recall, spitfires were for girls while we boys had midgets & sprites.
The P51 was built to a British specification and only worked properly once it got a British engine.

hybridracer said:

The P51 was built to a British specification and only worked properly once it got a British engine.

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At high altitude - and subjectively ( and this is coming from an American) the Spit ( the aircraft) is more attractive.
How can anyone not like a British car such as the E - type Jaguar ?
Even Enzo Ferrari with an ego the size of the planet said it was the most beautiful car ever made and I must agree .

Hey hey, I had a Spitfire! Not wishing to sink this line of questions, American and British were stuck with WW II equipment! We bombed Japan and Germany destroying all their machinery. 1949 they started with a clean slate,(of course we financed them) designing manufacturing equipment immediately surpassed us! American motorcycles , Indian went belly up and Harley struggled for years.

Weren’t the VW’s referred to as ‘Hitlers Revenge’? I had one, and that’s where I started learning auto mechanics. It was a good used car. It was all I could afford.
My buddy had a VW van. He said there were two kinds of VW van owners…those who have rolled them and those who will.

I wonder if humanity will ever learn to move beyond tribalism. Obviously it was a good idea when things like sabre tooth tigers were trying to eat us for lunch. Today it will probably end up getting us all killed. Is it really that important whether, British, American, Japanese, German or Italian etc machinery and culture is best? Just ride and drive what you like. Those who jabber on about how a given culture is best, are generally ignorant of what other cultures have to offer.

For the record the P51 Rolls Royce Merlin engines were made under license by Packard in the United States and were known to be extremely well engineered. The combination of the best brains of both countries made a better aircraft. I would love to own an AC Ace Bristol, but I would consider selling my children for medical experiments in exchange for an AC Cobra 289! Circumstance rather than nationality is probably more important when it comes to engineering quality. Take a look at a Lee Enfield rifle manufactured circa 1941 and compare it with one manufactured pre-war or post war. The difference in quality of manufacture is night and day. Similar examples from numerous different cultures are legion.

That said, I prefer Spridgets over spitfires! However, it is important to remember that Spitfire drivers are people too! :<)

SteveBorland said:

War is expensive, 2 World Wars extremely expensive.

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Only for the tax payer, it’s the most profitable business there is for an elite minority & the M.I.C; a great transfer of wealth hence the ‘forever wars’ policies.

Café au Lait said:

Only for the tax payer

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.. and the families of those who do the fighting but don’t come home .

Might we just leave it at that.

Fast Eddie said:

Not at all, just a historic observation. And a recognition of a pretty masterful strategic move by the US.
Britain would almost certainly have done exactly the same had the roles been reversed !

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acotrel said:

Norton were primarily interested in road racing - they sold road bikes for finance. Only 'name' riders could buy a Manx, and nobody could buy a motor on its own. When car guys did 500cc racing, they used to buy a complete second hand Manx to get the motor. That is how Tritons happened. In about 1963, the TD1 Yamahas appeared, and the guys did not need to buy a Manx to be competitive.

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In the 60's my brother use to flat track a pair of Yamaha TD1B's. The one was a decent starting bike, but the other was not. I remember several times after a night on the town when I would pit for him I would have to start the one and it darn near was my ruination!! Then he started running a Triumph man it was like a vacation; he could start the Triumph with a kick start.

Mark