MkIII High Compression, Will It Start?

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Has anyone raised compression to 10:1 on a MkIII with an upgraded electric starter motor?
I just want to know if I can go that high and still spin the motor for a good start.

At 8:1 compression it spins like a turbine.
But maybe 10:1 will kill it stone dead.
Or half stone dead. Which is same as stone dead.

Phil
 
Mine has a 920 kit and shaved head for about 10:1. It's hard to kick over but the stock starter will spin it. I have upgraded wires and am using a Li-ion battery. With the Boyer EI and new Amal premier carbs it fires right up.
 
The starter motor is unlikely to be an issue, especially if a hi output 4 brush ball bearing type is used. A 4 brush type will have no trouble coping with that load. A strong battery and heavy leads are obvious requirements.
The backfire device would need to be carefully adjusted to ensure it does not "go off" when attempting to start the bike, but that also the "shock absorber" dynamic that it provides is not overly lessened. The actual named feature of the device (backfire) is not really a concern if a digital ignition is used, like Tri-Spark (or Pazon, etc), as the Tri-Spark for example never kicks back.
The sprag clutch barely cuts it in a lazy stock motor, so it is likely that any wear in that area will reveal itself sooner rather than later if more is asked of it. The potential solution there is the Alton replacement starter drive for mk 3, but as has been mentioned before, that is not quite to market yet. It has a much larger sprag, which promises to be much more robust, and likely to cope with higher loadings.
The Alton starters for pre Mk 3, which are now generation 3, have strong and sizeable sprag units, which work extremely well. A similar set-up adapted for the Mk 3 promises to work equally well.
 
This one has the head shaved, Combat grind cam, and big valves. No problems with a 4 pole starter, 6 AWG cables and a 21 AH battery.

MkIII High Compression, Will It Start?
 
Ron L said:
This one has the head shaved, Combat grind cam, and big valves. No problems with a 4 pole starter, 6 AWG cables and a 21 AH battery.

]

That is a hot looking machine Ron,
Thanks for the info.

Phil
 
Ron L said:
This one has the head shaved, Combat grind cam, and big valves. No problems with a 4 pole starter, 6 AWG cables and a 21 AH battery.

MkIII High Compression, Will It Start?

Ron,

Any chance you could post a pic of the timing side of your bike ?
I'm looking to replace my Hyde rearsets with something a little less bulky, and want to see as many ideas as possible.
thanks
sam
 
NorComCycles said:
The starter motor is unlikely to be an issue, especially if a hi output 4 brush ball bearing type is used. A 4 brush type will have no trouble coping with that load. A strong battery and heavy leads are obvious requirements.
The backfire device would need to be carefully adjusted to ensure it does not "go off" when attempting to start the bike, but that also the "shock absorber" dynamic that it provides is not overly lessened. The actual named feature of the device (backfire) is not really a concern if a digital ignition is used, like Tri-Spark (or Pazon, etc), as the Tri-Spark for example never kicks back.
The sprag clutch barely cuts it in a lazy stock motor, so it is likely that any wear in that area will reveal itself sooner rather than later if more is asked of it. The potential solution there is the Alton replacement starter drive for mk 3, but as has been mentioned before, that is not quite to market yet. It has a much larger sprag, which promises to be much more robust, and likely to cope with higher loadings.
The Alton starters for pre Mk 3, which are now generation 3, have strong and sizeable sprag units, which work extremely well. A similar set-up adapted for the Mk 3 promises to work equally well.

Just a bit puzzled here. Why are there Alton starters available for pre MkIII but not yet MkIII? I would have thought they'd start with a replacement for the MkIII then work backwards to previous models. Seems ass about to me.
Also, any idea when it will be available?

Phil
 
There isn't much of a market to put an E-start on a bike that already has an e-starter. The Mark III estarts seem to work fine with some minor changes. Personally, I can't imagine why Alton would even try to make an Estart for a bike that came equipped that way.
 
mike996 said:
There isn't much of a market to put an E-start on a bike that already has an e-starter. The Mark III estarts seem to work fine with some minor changes. Personally, I can't imagine why Alton would even try to make an Estart for a bike that came equipped that way.

Okay, makes sense.
I understood there were a couple of after market MkIII starters. Mine is just an upgraded one as I understand (on current MkIII that is) but it is silver. My brother's MkIII starter is black, as I believe was the original. His is upgraded too (or after market - I don't know).

Alton sounds like a good option if it will be available soon. I'll chase that up with them.

Thanks
Phil
 
hobot said:
suppose ya could dream up a compression release for Commandos?

I thought of that hobot. I don't want to sacrifice use of the e start for high compression but it sounds like it won't be a problem.
I guess I could always remove the spark plugs, start the engine then screw the plugs back in.
Come again????????? Do what????????

Phil
 
Ron,

Any chance you could post a pic of the timing side of your bike ?you could post a pic of the timing side of your bike ?
I'm looking to replace my Hyde rearsets with something a little less bulky, and want to see as many ideas as possible.
thanks
sam

Here is a close-up. These were supplied by RGM many years ago. I am running a Brembo remote reservoir master cylinder, but it is designed for the stock Lockheed.

MkIII High Compression, Will It Start?


And here is the full profile.
MkIII High Compression, Will It Start?


Sorry for the short thread hi-jack. We will now return to your regularly scheduled programming.
 
Ron
Sometimes it is ridiculous to open a new topic for a couple of photos and explanation of such, particularly when requested. So I'm sure no one minds diversions from topic, certainly not me (not that my opinion matters or means anything). Looks a very nice machine. Is your 4 pole starter the original one upgraded? What exactly are 6 AWG cables? And what compression are you running?
I have contacted Alton re MkIII starter yet to come but not heard back yet.

Phil
 
phil yates said:
NorComCycles said:
The starter motor is unlikely to be an issue, especially if a hi output 4 brush ball bearing type is used. A 4 brush type will have no trouble coping with that load. A strong battery and heavy leads are obvious requirements.
The backfire device would need to be carefully adjusted to ensure it does not "go off" when attempting to start the bike, but that also the "shock absorber" dynamic that it provides is not overly lessened. The actual named feature of the device (backfire) is not really a concern if a digital ignition is used, like Tri-Spark (or Pazon, etc), as the Tri-Spark for example never kicks back.
The sprag clutch barely cuts it in a lazy stock motor, so it is likely that any wear in that area will reveal itself sooner rather than later if more is asked of it. The potential solution there is the Alton replacement starter drive for mk 3, but as has been mentioned before, that is not quite to market yet. It has a much larger sprag, which promises to be much more robust, and likely to cope with higher loadings.
The Alton starters for pre Mk 3, which are now generation 3, have strong and sizeable sprag units, which work extremely well. A similar set-up adapted for the Mk 3 promises to work equally well.

Just a bit puzzled here. Why are there Alton starters available for pre MkIII but not yet MkIII? I would have thought they'd start with a replacement for the MkIII then work backwards to previous models. Seems ass about to me.
Also, any idea when it will be available?

Phil

Last advice from Alton was that the Mk 3 project is still in the works, but it had to be put on hold due to high demand for other existing product lines. I do not have a projected date at this stage. The interest in the MK 3 drive system is very high, which is not at all surprising. I have had many enquiries, but for now at least, I can only advise people to wait.
 
NorComCycles said:
phil yates said:
NorComCycles said:
The starter motor is unlikely to be an issue, especially if a hi output 4 brush ball bearing type is used. A 4 brush type will have no trouble coping with that load. A strong battery and heavy leads are obvious requirements.
The backfire device would need to be carefully adjusted to ensure it does not "go off" when attempting to start the bike, but that also the "shock absorber" dynamic that it provides is not overly lessened. The actual named feature of the device (backfire) is not really a concern if a digital ignition is used, like Tri-Spark (or Pazon, etc), as the Tri-Spark for example never kicks back.
The sprag clutch barely cuts it in a lazy stock motor, so it is likely that any wear in that area will reveal itself sooner rather than later if more is asked of it. The potential solution there is the Alton replacement starter drive for mk 3, but as has been mentioned before, that is not quite to market yet. It has a much larger sprag, which promises to be much more robust, and likely to cope with higher loadings.
The Alton starters for pre Mk 3, which are now generation 3, have strong and sizeable sprag units, which work extremely well. A similar set-up adapted for the Mk 3 promises to work equally well.

Just a bit puzzled here. Why are there Alton starters available for pre MkIII but not yet MkIII? I would have thought they'd start with a replacement for the MkIII then work backwards to previous models. Seems ass about to me.
Also, any idea when it will be available?

Phil

Last advice from Alton was that the Mk 3 project is still in the works, but it had to be put on hold due to high demand for other existing product lines. I do not have a projected date at this stage. The interest in the MK 3 drive system is very high, which is not at all surprising. I have had many enquiries, but for now at least, I can only advise people to wait.

Thank you very much for the advice. I'm told Alton make an excellent starter so I'll wait to hear something re production of a MkIII version.

Thanks
Phil
 
phil yates said:
hobot said:
suppose ya could dream up a compression release for Commandos?

I thought of that hobot. I don't want to sacrifice use of the e start for high compression but it sounds like it won't be a problem.
I guess I could always remove the spark plugs, start the engine then screw the plugs back in.
Come again????????? Do what????????

Phil
you could use the same setup as an early pre 1972 xs650 yamaha the valve lifter was fitted to the left hand exhaust valve inspection cover because of a weak starter motor later on they lowered the compression ratio and did away with it very cunning those japanese scoundrels!
 
baz said:
phil yates said:
hobot said:
suppose ya could dream up a compression release for Commandos?

I thought of that hobot. I don't want to sacrifice use of the e start for high compression but it sounds like it won't be a problem.
I guess I could always remove the spark plugs, start the engine then screw the plugs back in.
Come again????????? Do what????????

Phil
you could use the same setup as an early pre 1972 xs650 yamaha the valve lifter was fitted to the left hand exhaust valve inspection cover because of a weak starter motor later on they lowered the compression ratio and did away with it very cunning those japanese scoundrels!

baz
I have a confession to make.
On my ALL British Norton, someone bolted on a thing, I think they call it a Bikini.
No idea what it does, but I was horrified to learn it came from Japan.
So I sawed the offending component off.
Now my completely ALL British Norton won't even start!
I am so embarrassed I haven't been able to tell anyone!
But you.

Regarding your post, I certainly didn't know the Yammy 650 (Jaffa) had a valve lifter. I always wanted to ride one of those out of curiosity. Normally the Japs would just improve the starter motor, but it was early days. I don't think I'll be engaging in installation of a valve lifter for the Commando. But I will certainly be using another Mikuni. It runs a Commando better than any carbi I've tried, including the original Amals. Others think not, but I do.

Phil
 
if your going to fit a mikuni i would go for a TM40 pumper its one of the best mods i have done on my commando you have to cut some of the gusset away on the frame but will give you one sweet running bike ,i have tried a brand new pair of mk1 amal 32s a 32mm CV mikuni a 34mm VM mikuni and a 36mm VM mikuni but the TM40 flatslide pumper gets my commando moving the way i like it between 3000rpm and 7000rpm but it will rev past 7500revs if i let it and with a solid tickover ,,,,,,,,,,,baz
 
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