Mark 3 verses the rest

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Apr 13, 2021
Messages
304
Country flag
Hi all,
I was a little surprised by a recent thread about a cracked crankshaft on a Mk3 Commando. We can’t know what abuses the bike had endured in it’s 45 year life but photos did indicate incorrectly radiused corners on the crank. If this is the case, it is damming evidence of poor quality control. After the Combat debacle and the much vaunted Superblend bearings I thought the crank might have been bulletproof in road usage (as it should be)
It did start me thinking though. I always assumed that the the Mark3, apart from the obvious gear change, brakes, isolastics and electric start and some cleaning up of cosmetic electrics was really an improved, slower, slightly de-tuned, heavier, less incontinent but more robust bike, that attempted to restore reliability back into the Commando’s reputation.
I thought the previous 750s and 850s being leaner, lighter and faster but with a greater proclivity to self destruct their cranks, among other things. Is this assumption correct? With 45 years of experience did the many small improvements to the Mk3 make it a substantially better bike, a more reliable bike or an easier bike to live with.
As a Trident T160 owner I believe it to be a better, more modern bike than it’s T150 forebear, albeit not sufficiently better to make large inroads into the marketplace by 1975/6. It has numerous minor mechanical improvements and handles better than the T150. Could the same be said about the it’s stablemate, the Mk3? As a 17 year old desperately wanting either of the bikes. I remember ogling (no pun) over the ‘Power Choice’ Brochure, that extolled the virtues of both the 160 and the Mk3. As it turned out I bought the Triumph, a decision I foolishly regretted for many years, not so now I own both brands.
What is considered the pick of Commandos today after half a century of use and abuse, as well as love and care. Which would be the fastest, the most sporting, the most reliable? Did Norton achieve many of their design goals with the Mk3?
Just interested, that’s all, although a Commando owner, there seems to be large gaps in my knowledge.
regards
alan
 
Ignoring problems with the combat motors, I don't recall any issue with Norton cranks self destructing in normal use. Not to say that poor subsequent work couldn't cause a problem but from the factory I don't remember that being an issue at all back in the day. I raced my 750 on weekends and it was my only vehicle back then and it never caused me any serious trouble - ie, stranding me on the side of the road - and my 850 has not either.

The Mark III did include some things that Norton had wanted to implement when the Commando was being designed - E-start, vernier-adjust isos, etc, and some things they probably didn't want, right-side shift, more restrictive intake/exhaust for noise (which actually showed up before the Mark III), a bit less power as a result and, of course more weight.
 
How was the MK3 detuned from earlier 850 levels? Same everything except those restrictive Black Cap silencers which actually arrived just before the MK3.
Ditch those and reject, then full Commando power is restored.

Mk 3 Weight is pre mk3 Commando+ starter,that's about it.
That is, if you add an aftermarket estart to an earlier 850 or 750 it will be the same weight as a MK3 850.
Yes, the engine is a bit more robust. The tight budget early days racers tried to find MK3 cases and crank for racing.
Nowadays the serious contenders use uprated aftermarket everything, nothing made by Norton is found in those engines.
If you go right through the MK3, there are scores of items that were redesigned to be stronger or longer lasting. The swingarm is a good example. Multiple improvements there. Some folks install MK3 swing arms on pre MK3 bikes to get the upgrade.

Glen
 
Last edited:
I most like the way the MK 111 stops on the rear brake. Better pads. I've had 3 pre. - Mk 111 's and whatever I did to the rear brake upgrade was useless. Another thingy is the rotor/ stator fitting. The outrigger plate sets things up perfect , so there is no fiddling/ bending of studs anymore. Another thing I like is the centralized switchgear .
Today I blasted around with Jap Bikes and they gave me the big Thumbs up . So I feel good. Refuel tomorrow.
 
Was th
How was the MK3 detuned from earlier 850 levels? Same everything except those restrictive Black Cap silencers which actually arrived just before the MK3.
Ditch those and reject, then full Commando power is restored.

Mk 3 Weight is pre mk3 Commando+ starter,that's about it.
That is, if you add an aftermarket estart to an earlier 850 or 750 it will be the same weight as a MK3 850.
Yes, the engine is a bit more robust. The tight budget early days racers tried to find MK3 cases and crank for racing.
Nowadays the serious contenders use uprated aftermarket everything, nothing made by Norton is found in those engines.
If you go right through the MK3, there are scores of items that were redesigned to be stronger or longer lasting. The swingarm is a good example. Multiple improvements there. Some folks install MK3 swing arms on pre MK3 bikes to get the upgrade.

Glen
was the fixed gearbox, screws around the primary cover and camshaft chain inspection plug considered a plus?
Did the crossover affect the gear change at all?
 
I think the MK3 used to have something of a bad rep and was kinda the unwanted one for quite a while.

But it seems these days the electric start, and left foot ‘right way up’ gear change makes it a much easier bike to live with, especially as part of a stable of other more modern machines. The softer power delivery is also more fittting with ‘classic riding’ for the majority. Consequently I thinks it’s desirability, and therefore value, is on the up.
 
I would guess many here are old enough to have 'been there' in the mid '70's....
The Japanese (and MCN, perhaps) made great play of the 'top speed was all' aspect, bikes were toys and playthings now, not necessarily the 'ride to work' tool that Brit manufacturers had catered for for so long. The latest 'one to have' was always that nth degree faster than the model it replaced.
So into this market place drops the Mk3.... fatter.... slower.... joke starter.... wooden brakes... oil leaks.. poor quality control...
Of course all that can be dealt with now, but at the time.... who would???
 
I would guess many here are old enough to have 'been there' in the mid '70's....
The Japanese (and MCN, perhaps) made great play of the 'top speed was all' aspect, bikes were toys and playthings now, not necessarily the 'ride to work' tool that Brit manufacturers had catered for for so long. The latest 'one to have' was always that nth degree faster than the model it replaced.
So into this market place drops the Mk3.... fatter.... slower.... joke starter.... wooden brakes... oil leaks.. poor quality control...
Of course all that can be dealt with now, but at the time.... who would???
Nothing much has changed with MCN... they’ll still try and persuade you that you NEED to change your out of date 200bhp sports bike for the newer and infinatley better 205bhp version...:rolleyes:
 
For those of us left in the real world, I was happily sitting in the fast lane of the A12 yesterday, with a bit more in hand :-)
It wouldn't be the fastest thing through the twisties, but neither would the rider....
 
Last edited:
a famous english motorcycle paper : Motor Cycle News, there was two papers the blue one and the red one , don(t remenber which one was it............
 
a famous english motorcycle paper : Motor Cycle News, there was two papers the blue one and the red one , don(t remenber which one was it............

The Blue 'un was The Motor Cycle. The Green 'un was Motor Cycling.
"The Motor Cycle was one of the first British magazines. Launched by Iliffe and Sons Ltd in 1903, its blue cover led to it being called "The Blue 'un" to help distinguish it from its rival publication Motor Cycling, which, using a green background colour, was known as "The Green 'un". Many issues carried the strapline "Circulated throughout the World".
The covers eventually used a variety of different background colours after 1962, with a name-change to Motor Cycle."

"The title was founded in late 1955 as Motorcycle News by Cyril Quantrill, a former employee of Motor Cycling, and was sold to EMAP in 1956. Bauer bought Emap's consumer media division in 2008."

 
I don't think the Mk III is any more or less robust than the previous 850's. The timing cover tends to wet-sump at a much lower rate than it's direct ancestors. The adjustable isos were a nice touch. Crankcases may be the stoutest of the breed, But Superblends and not over-revving keep older iterations together. Worst aspect is the sheer weight of the starter, crossover shift and associated gears. Better head steady.
 
Mind you, there is a lot of literature out there claiming the 'black cap' silencers (with the 'balanced' pipes) did exactly as required, i.e: lowered the noise levels without affecting the production bike's performance. Maybe not the first choice for those going racing, perhaps, but given the internal shenanigans involved I do wonder if the current aftermarket offerings are truly faithful reproductions?
 
Back in 1975 I was not impressed with either the Mk III or the T160 because they were a lot heavier than what came before. Who needed an electric starter? I was 24, small and light but never had trouble kicking either bike over. Today I still have no interest in electric start but that may be whistling past the graveyard. Certainly not interested in any additional weigh though. Probably should sell the T150v and the Mk II and start over going the Ludwig route. Driving the Rickman has really changed my outlook lately.
 
Today I still have no interest in electric start but that may be whistling past the graveyard. Certainly not interested in any additional weigh though.
The cNw e-start adds a mere 10 lbs. to a stock MKII. Swap the triplex chain, steel clutch basket, bronze clutch plates and lead acid battery for a poly carbon belt, aluminum clutch wheel, aluminum backed Barnett clutch and a 3 lb. LiFe battery. Less rotating mass also improves throttle response.
 
Well the weight back then included a big old lead acid battery so the weight total was quite a bit. Today I can have all that reduced weight stuff ( have BNR clutch/belt and tiny battery, small seat, small ally rearsets) as well. Would find it hard to resist buying a set of ally jugs when they hit the market.
 
Mind you, there is a lot of literature out there claiming the 'black cap' silencers (with the 'balanced' pipes) did exactly as required, i.e: lowered the noise levels without affecting the production bike's performance. Maybe not the first choice for those going racing, perhaps, but given the internal shenanigans involved I do wonder if the current aftermarket offerings are truly faithful reproductions?
When replacing the black caps with open peashooters the main jet goes from 230 to 260 and the engine wakes up.

Real world, my 850 in a 5 mile drag up a steep mountain pass pulled ahead of a Vincent 1000 by half a mile at top. The MK3 held 95 mph on an 8 % grade. The only performance changes from stock are the exhaust and a bit thinner head gasket.
The 750 in our club doesn't pull like that, it tends to get in the way of the Vincents when passing uphill.
I was surprised that the MK3 outran the Vincent. So was the Vincent owner!
Glen
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top