Ken Redfern Norton (2015)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hello sorry for the delay in getting back but i have been so busy on other matters it was untrue, Pictures of what i have done for the Redfern Norton, i have had to send them via admin for insertion. you could also contact me via roythersby@gmail.com.
 
Hi Al

Roy is a facinating man, with some great stories. He was part of the original build with Ken who appears to have been a natural on a bike. Really fast on the track & a real biker who rode his bike on the Queens highway.
Since Mike, Kens brother restored it, its been seen at lots of circuits & is beautifully restored but also such an original design. With its clothes on you would think, Seeley Mk3.
Must admit I did not know that 5 were built. Just remember Roy saying the 750's never caused problems but the 850 grunt pulled them apart. Thats how I met Roy. My Seeley MK3 road bike broke its frame & he advised me to re tube it. He also advised me to keep an eye on my Rickman frames as they were nickel plated like the Redfern bike.
If you have a look at the beautiful Ducati Pantha 600 F2 race bikes from the TT & you will be looking at Roys work. The bit I like is that he has managed to aquire a fair few of them back into his fold. If you fancied a Redfern Norton, you could not be dealing with a better guy.

Kens story was written up in Classic Racer a few years ago. The man was a talent & his end makes sad reading but as a biker its almost story book.

Chris
Hi Chris
I have just become a member of this forum and having read your article I have to address the misleading and incorrect information contained in it.
My late brother Ken Redfern designed the frame himself to house 500 & 750 Norton motors and on completion it was entered as a RJ Dunstall. ‘R’ for Redfern ‘J ‘ for Jeal and Dunstall because he supplied the motors. The only people involved in its construction, development and assembly were Ken, Keith Jeal and Stewart Hodgson the welder, Roy had no input.
Only one frame was manufactured.
The bike was a success first time out with good results at the top level when fitted with the 500 motor. Never was an 850 engine fitted.
The bike was sold on in 72 but in 92 when I was competing in Classic/Forgotten Era Races we discovered the bike on Vancouver Island. It was shipped back in a sorry state to the UK where l totally rebuilt it and entered it as a ‘Redfern Norton ‘ raced it successfully for a further 4 years.
After a hard life for many years the frame eventually cried enough and began to crack local to the head steady Mount. This cracking was not due to nickel embrittlement as has been stated elsewhere.
If you require any more details please do not hesitate to contact me.

Mike
 
Hi Mike
Thank you for correcting my assertion about Roy being involved in the build of the frame.
I thought the article in the magazine about your rebuild of your brothers bike was excellent. The Redfern Norton looked even better in the flesh. Nickle embrittlement was mentioned as my Caffrey Seeley Mk4 & my Dresda Trident & my Rickman Commando are nickeled framed & as a warning to me to beware. Not that the Redfern frame had failed through this.
Got to say it's great to have you on the site Mike. I'm sure some photos of the bike would be in order. There was an article on your brother & how he went racing that was a delightful to read.
He seemed to be a natural on a bike.
All the best Chris
 
  • Like
Reactions: baz
I have just become a member of this forum and having read your article I have to address the misleading and incorrect information contained in it.
Welcome to the forum Mike. It's refreshing and unusual that we get someone here who was actually "there" to witness these historical events. It's also sobering when you realize that the stories published in magazines and handed down by word of mouth can be so inaccurate. Just 'cuz it's written somewhere doesn't make it right.
 
It's also sobering when you realize that the stories published in magazines and handed down by word of mouth can be so inaccurate. Just 'cuz it's written somewhere doesn't make it right.
I worked in a factory as part of the management team, we regularly had management meetings where the normal topics were discussed and decisions made. Walking the shopfloor just a few hours later and talking to non attendees the decisions had been so distorted by the rumour mill you could be forgiven for thinking the meeting had been a dream and you had not been there.
 
I worked in a factory as part of the management team, we regularly had management meetings where the normal topics were discussed and decisions made. Walking the shopfloor just a few hours later and talking to non attendees the decisions had been so distorted by the rumour mill you could be forgiven for thinking the meeting had been a dream and you had not been there.
This is so true!!!!
 
Hi Chris
I have just become a member of this forum and having read your article I have to address the misleading and incorrect information contained in it.
My late brother Ken Redfern designed the frame himself to house 500 & 750 Norton motors and on completion it was entered as a RJ Dunstall. ‘R’ for Redfern ‘J ‘ for Jeal and Dunstall because he supplied the motors. The only people involved in its construction, development and assembly were Ken, Keith Jeal and Stewart Hodgson the welder, Roy had no input.
Only one frame was manufactured.
The bike was a success first time out with good results at the top level when fitted with the 500 motor. Never was an 850 engine fitted.
The bike was sold on in 72 but in 92 when I was competing in Classic/Forgotten Era Races we discovered the bike on Vancouver Island. It was shipped back in a sorry state to the UK where l totally rebuilt it and entered it as a ‘Redfern Norton ‘ raced it successfully for a further 4 years.
After a hard life for many years the frame eventually cried enough and began to crack local to the head steady Mount. This cracking was not due to nickel embrittlement as has been stated elsewhere.
If you require any more details please do not hesitate to contact me.

Mike
Mike,

Did you at any time look at running an outrigger bearing based on the Thruxton solution of welding an inner primary to the engine cases? I guess I am asking about the period after the Redfern Norton as described above.

I had written correspondence with someone who did back in the late '70s. I was interested in the idea for my Rickman 850 I was racing at that time. I had thought that was you, maybe not, regrettably I didn't keep the letter and drawing I received through our several house moves between 1980 and 2016.

I built that bike originally in winter '75/'76 and had only started racing in '75 on a production Fastback Commando. I had started spectating at road race meetings at the Hutch at Brands in '72.

The Rickman frame is currently in use in the bike in my avatar.
 
Last edited:
Hi Al

Roy is a facinating man, with some great stories. He was part of the original build with Ken who appears to have been a natural on a bike. Really fast on the track & a real biker who rode his bike on the Queens highway.
Since Mike, Kens brother restored it, its been seen at lots of circuits & is beautifully restored but also such an original design. With its clothes on you would think, Seeley Mk3.
Must admit I did not know that 5 were built. Just remember Roy saying the 750's never caused problems but the 850 grunt pulled them apart. Thats how I met Roy. My Seeley MK3 road bike broke its frame & he advised me to re tube it. He also advised me to keep an eye on my Rickman frames as they were nickel plated like the Redfern bike.
If you have a look at the beautiful Ducati Pantha 600 F2 race bikes from the TT & you will be looking at Roys work. The bit I like is that he has managed to aquire a fair few of them back into his fold. If you fancied a Redfern Norton, you could not be dealing with a better guy.

Kens story was written up in Classic Racer a few years ago. The man was a talent & his end makes sad reading but as a biker its almost story book.

Chris
Mike,

Did you at any time look at running an outrigger bearing based on the Thruxton solution of welding an inner primary to the engine cases? I guess I am asking about the period after the Redfern Norton as described above.

I had written correspondence with someone who did back in the late '70s. I was interested in the idea for my Rickman 850 I was racing at that time. I had thought that was you, maybe not, regrettably I didn't keep the letter and drawing I received through our several house moves between 1980 and 2016.

I built that bike originally in winter '75/'76 and had only started racing in '75 on a production Fastback Commando. I had started spectating at road race meetings at the Hutch at Brands in '72.

The Rickman frame is currently in use in the bike in my avatar.
Hi
We didn’t go down the outrigger route mainly because we hadn’t had mainshaft bending problems. A friend of ours did make an outrigger set up funnily enough for his Metisse. I can’t remember too much about it but if you are interested I can get in touch to ask him details.
Mike
 
Hi
We didn’t go down the outrigger route mainly because we hadn’t had mainshaft bending problems. A friend of ours did make an outrigger set up funnily enough for his Metisse. I can’t remember too much about it but if you are interested I can get in touch to ask him details.
Mike
Thanks Mike

I run a TTi box, which today is my preferred solution to gearboxes and outriggers. If you had few problems you probably used the shorter shaft and an Atlas clutch. The problems mainly came when using the Commando clutch and longer mainshaft.

I guess I am more interested to know who it was I was in contact all those years ago, and if he has carried on his Norton or racing interests. I was in the RAF and living in Lincolnshire at the time.

Whoever it was sent me drawings and had spent some time responding to me. He used typical machine shop language, which needed translation for a young and naive Avionics Technician, I had though trepanning was something to do with brain surgery, but I discovered it was a milling process to cut a large diameter hole in sheet metal.

I was grateful for the response, it clarified a lot for me, but I didn't pursue it. Even though I was running a high spec 850 I didn't have much of a gearbox issue in reality, but I saw others rebuilding 5 Speed gearboxes almost weekly, and I was afraid it could happen.

I had chosen to raise the primary ratio based on good advice from Norton factory people, and I built a 4 speed AMC box with a cluster from Quaife and a modified layshaft to accommodate a ball race and no kickstart shaft. The ratios were Manx, which were the 4 upper ratios from a 5 speed, with push starts I pushed off in first and there were very few occasions when I would have used a lower gear. The cover didn't come off that box in 4 seasons.

Steve
 
They are also now allowed to run 17" modern rubber, without tyre warmers, which means some of them are likely to slide into you on early laps and ride around you when the tyres are hot.
A good bit of forward thinking there Steve, and proved beyond doubt after what happened to my mate at Castle combe.
 
Hi Chris
I have just become a member of this forum and having read your article I have to address the misleading and incorrect information contained in it.
My late brother Ken Redfern designed the frame himself to house 500 & 750 Norton motors and on completion it was entered as a RJ Dunstall. ‘R’ for Redfern ‘J ‘ for Jeal and Dunstall because he supplied the motors. The only people involved in its construction, development and assembly were Ken, Keith Jeal and Stewart Hodgson the welder, Roy had no input.
Only one frame was manufactured.
The bike was a success first time out with good results at the top level when fitted with the 500 motor. Never was an 850 engine fitted.
The bike was sold on in 72 but in 92 when I was competing in Classic/Forgotten Era Races we discovered the bike on Vancouver Island. It was shipped back in a sorry state to the UK where l totally rebuilt it and entered it as a ‘Redfern Norton ‘ raced it successfully for a further 4 years.
After a hard life for many years the frame eventually cried enough and began to crack local to the head steady Mount. This cracking was not due to nickel embrittlement as has been stated elsewhere.
If you require any more details please do not hesitate to contact me.

Mike
Hi Mike,

I was quite disappointed to read your post referring to the Redfern Norton's description of "sorry state" when I shipped it back to you. You specifically said you did not want the faring, exhaust, primary drive, or seat. Any machine without these would look sorry, especially pre-unit construction ones. You say this now 20 years later when I only did what you wanted. The last big race I did was the '81 MGP Newcomers where I finished 7th. After a year working offshore Nigeria, we went overseas March '83 so the bike was not used only fettled. Check the photos.

Ken Redfern Norton (2015)

Son, George, sitting on the bike shortly before it was flown back before the unwanted parts were removed.

Ken Redfern Norton (2015)

On my way to 7th in the '81 MGP Newcomers.

Bill
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top