John Player Special restoration project

grandpaul · Nov 7, 2015

I just RE-acquired this '74 MkII JPN 850; it's been a long 17 years getting it back in my garage after an auspicious first go at owning it (long story).

I want to eliminate ANY doubt that this is indeed a JPN model. I have photos of several key parts of the bike that should provide clues, here they are...

Welded gas tank extension (topside has been smoothed over and tank is repainted)

Gas tank cover with cap cover

Rivet holes where original serial number plate once was (there are no holes on the steering neck)

...

grandpaul · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

More clues-

Unique rearset footpegs

Choke lever mounted on pipe stub in handlebar clamps

Very limited JPN dual seat

...

grandpaul · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

More clues-

Front/lower fairing mount bracket & muffler brackets

Black chrome headers with regular chrome crossover pipe, shifter

Frame part number stamping

Left sidecover fixing

...

grandpaul · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

There are plenty of non-definitive bits including the electrical controls, front brake master cylinder, Amal carb stampings, and box-type head steady (would JPN model have had another type?)

Not sure at all about this front/top fairing mount...

I would like to obtain some sort of affidavit / documentation based on whatever original factory records are available before I present it as a bona fide JPN model (if that is indeed possible). Any help is appreciated.

grandpaul · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

When I first owned it (however briefly), it had the un-finished, welded gas tank with the white cover on it, and the original (rusted out) black chrome bean can mufflers, no fairing and no seat.

The guy I bought it from was somehow convinced by a mutual friend that is was supposed to be a production racer and so he proceeded to obtain replica parts, thinking he'd get "thirty grand" (his words) for it.

So, here is how it sits in my garage, I added the little windscreen for the photos because it looks better than without it.

If anyone is able to obtain a definite determination based on the serial number, I can provide that off-line.

L.A.B. · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

http://www.andover-norton.co.uk/JRP/jrframes.htm

06-6266 JPN Supplement, for Commando 850Mk2A. List covers the ca.300 JPN Replicas produced and integrates latest additions.
£4.95

grandpaul · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

Wouldn't it have to be down to a documented despatch of a particular series or list of serial numbers?

L.A.B. · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

grandpaul said:
Wouldn't it have to be down to a documented despatch of a particular series or list of serial numbers?

Probably. I think Andover Norton would have that information-if it exists?

grandpaul said:
Very limited JPN dual seat

None of the JPNs had a dual seat (or passenger footrests) originally as far as I'm aware, although I've seen similar style dual seats on used JPNs?

grandpaul · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

L.A.B. said:
None of the JPNs had a dual seat (or passenger footrests) originally as far as I'm aware, although I've seen similar style dual seats on used JPNs?

The dual seat for JPN is actually a Gus Kuhn aftermarket part.

Bob Z. · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

Small point: The December 1974 Cycle magazine test on the John Player Special shows black chrome shock springs.

Your kick start lever looks correct.

grandpaul · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

From Joe Seifert in an NOC forum post 6/27/12...

"Unfortunately, whilst I have some records that neither the NOC, not the VMCC have- original despatch ledgers- there are gaps, mainly the very late 750s (#235...; this includes the 750 short stroke engines) and most early 850s including all the Mk2As, and thus the JPNs. If anybody claims his JPN is verified by "the experts", forget it. Nobody can, unless the history of the bike can be proven from point of purchase till today."

So, I may be out of luck; although this bike has a lot going for it, like the steering neck undrilled. In fact, this may be a VERY important point.

Were ANY other '74 frames NOT DRILLED on the steering neck? Production Racers? (ended in '72, no?) Might be a strong argument right here.

L.A.B. · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

Bob Z. said:
Small point: The December 1974 Cycle magazine test on the John Player Special shows black chrome shock springs.

I've never known Girlings to have "black chrome" springs? Black painted, yes (as it soon cracked and flaked off). :wink:

dennisgb · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

grandpaul said:
So, I may be out of luck; although this bike has a lot going for it, like the steering neck undrilled. In fact, this may be a VERY important point.

If you plan to restore it (which I think you will), then just assume it's authentic. Since the records don't show anything who's to question it?

There are methods to trace things back, or maybe the pieces of the puzzle will find you

It looks like a cool bike no matter what.

nortriubuell · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

Go for it !!! I think the JPNs are cool looking, even if its a "copy", or not even "all correct" ... I would not care one bit. 8)

grandpaul · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

A few more points of consideration..

Head is RH10

Right side carb is 932/R33; I'm not inclined to remove the carbs and check the left one yet...

Throttle is not like any I recall seeing on a Commando

...

grandpaul · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

More still...

Intakes have smooth tops rather than "stepped" ribbing

Clip-on handlebars are more robust than many I've seen with thin sheet metal and skinny screws

Steering neck definitely has never been drilled for a data tag

...

Rohan · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

Somehow that seat doesn't look like the usual JPN Dualseat ?
This is one I have...

A view underneath shows it looks like they have just grafted on an extra extension, for the rider.

BTW, anyone know where a new seat covering may be purchased, off the shelf ?

grandpaul said:
Very limited JPN dual seat

grandpaul · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

Rohan said:
Somehow that seat doesn't look like the usual JPN Dualseat ?

Right, it's a Gus Kuhn moulding, as I stated further along...

Rohan · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

What you actually said was

grandpaul said:
The dual seat for JPN is actually a Gus Kuhn aftermarket part.

Which is not quite the same thing.
Not to get picky or anything.
If you'd said its a moulding for YOUR jpn, then it would have been clearer to others.

The JPN dualseats, like the one I showed, were some sort of aftermarket part ?
Anyone know who supplied them ?

L.A.B. · Nov 7, 2015

Re: Eliminate doubt on this JPN

grandpaul said:
Intakes have smooth tops rather than "stepped" ribbing

The 32/32 and 32/30 manifolds are the "smooth" type, 30/28 are "stepped" so "smooth" are correct (for 32mm carbs).

John Player Special restoration project

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