It's alive! But not charging.

A while back, I posted some shots of a MK3 that I had worked a deal on. Well, here it is. This is a FULL engine and gearbox rebuild, with everything else properly done as well. The bike running here is the first time it has started since being rebuilt. The fuel lines are crude, and the faint ringing sound are the rocker covers not fastened. I was shocked at how easily it started and how well it ran (runs). Truthfully, I was just checking to see if it would pop or even try to start. Hit the button and it cranked over for a few seconds and the sprag and back fire devices did their jobs. One more push of the green go button and it lit off. Oil is indeed circulating and returning to the tank. The gearbox selects the gears just fine. All seems to be in order except for the charging system. I installed a new Sparx high output stator and matching Podtronix regulator. In addition to that, the wiring loom is brand new, Lucas cloth covered, assimilator, brand new as well. Very nice. Installation of the POD unit was like any other...2 stator wires to the 2 yellow on unit. Red wire to + and black wire to - at battery. There is only the 12 volts of the new battery while running at idle or up to 2500-3000 rpm. I've read some threads from past charging issues and was not able to find a positive test for the POD unit. Not sure why I suspect it first, but I do.

I tried another set up as outlined by the supplier of the Sparx and POD unit. There was a drawing of it in the box when it arrived. He suggested that I try having jumper wires from the assimilator unit GW/GY wires in line with the yellow wires from the unit itself, all together being connected to the stator wires. Not sure if this had or has a negative impact or not, but the red warning light is still on, as in the video. It's a bit confusing, as I am familiar with the OTHER set up. It's what I have run on my other bikes.

Also, there is a white wire and a green/white wire on the same stem as the neutral switch wires. According to the Lucas wire diagram that came with the harness, they are stator wires. I hooked the stator wires up to it and in a few seconds, the battery was up past 13v. It stands to reason that the stator and rotor are doing their job, but it was taking the POD unit out of the loop completely with no voltage regulation. I didn't leave them connected for long, and I did test the white wire for power before making the connections. That leaves the POD unit? Anything else? It's all connected back to the first and correct configuration at this point. I've never had any real electrical issues on these bikes that I couldn't solve. All parts are brand new, but that does not necessarily mean anything in this case. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks.

A great first place to start is disconnect your new Podtronics regulator from the bike (including the new assimilator)
With the two yellows connected between your alternator and regulator, you should be able to put a simple light bulb across the red and black wires of the regulator.

With the engine running, the bulb should be lit!


The more I read about these regulators, even the branded 'high quality' ones, the more I don't like them.
I have pulled two faulty ones apart now, and they were both identical inside - just a pile of cheap bits badly soldered together and encapsulated in resin.
In both cases, I found that the bits that get hot were not even mounted to the outer case properly, so there was practically no point in the case having fins for cooling!

The Sparx alternators have picked up a reputation for melting themselves to bits, but I would put money on the fact this is due to a poor quality regulator at the other end of the electric string!



Test your Podtronics independently from everything else before you start digging any deeper!

JCD said:

Also, there is a white wire and a green/white wire on the same stem as the neutral switch wires. According to the Lucas wire diagram that came with the harness, they are stator wires.

Click to expand...

Yes, that's where the stator wires would normally connect to the harness, however there seems to be two variations of "new" harness, and what I would have expected you to find at that harness end section is:

Either:

Two white/green (not "green/white"), two green/yellow, one green(neutral), and one red (neutral)?

Or:

One white/green, one green/yellow, one green, one red?

gtiller said:

A great first place to start is disconnect your new Podtronics regulator from the bike (including the new assimilator)
With the two yellows connected between your alternator and regulator, you should be able to put a simple light bulb across the red and black wires of the regulator.

With the engine running, the bulb should be lit!


The more I read about these regulators, even the branded 'high quality' ones, the more I don't like them.
I have pulled two faulty ones apart now, and they were both identical inside - just a pile of cheap bits badly soldered together and encapsulated in resin.
In both cases, I found that the bits that get hot were not even mounted to the outer case properly, so there was practically no point in the case having fins for cooling!

The Sparx alternators have picked up a reputation for melting themselves to bits, but I would put money on the fact this is due to a poor quality regulator at the other end of the electric string!



Test your Podtronics independently from everything else before you start digging any deeper!

Click to expand...

Read my post on these voltage-regulators-t22113.html the Podtronic or others working the same way should NEVER be operated witout a battery OR a load otherwise they will appear to be defective. While they are not MY choice to put on any rebuild, they do work IF they are connected and used within their design limitations.

There are much better alternatives out there, a bit more expensive, but they won't harm anything.

Jean

Did you remove the ballast resistor?

It must be removed when installing modern electronics.

grandpaul said:

Did you remove the ballast resistor?

It must be removed when installing modern electronics.

Click to expand...

The ballast resistor must of course be disconnected/removed when fitting electronic ignition but it isn't part of the charging system.

I've heard stories of interference messing up the charging with modern reg/rects...

grandpaul said:

I've heard stories of interference messing up the charging with modern reg/rects...

Click to expand...

Well that's a new one, however the ballast resistor can't just be removed from the standard points ignition-at least not without changing the coils to 12V.

Thanks for all of the comments and advice so far. For the record, I installed a Power Arc ignition system with all of the kit: coil, plugs, wires, caps, etc. No ballast resistor. I am headed to my shop tomorrow to do a bit more testing.

I've heard stories of interference messing up the charging with modern reg/rects...

Click to expand...

For Sparx 3 phase reg/rect you need to use surpressed plugs, plug caps or HT leads, if not the ignition interference will send it loopy and the regulation goes to pot. That is the one and only instance I know of and does not relate to the ballast resistors. Single phase does not need protection from the ignition.

Another good reason to steer clear of Sparx products.

Reporting back on the charging issue. I returned the suspected faulty Podtronix unit after testing to see whether or not it would light an automotive bulb. Nope. Not even a dim bulb. I fitted the new unit with the very same results. Only battery voltage at 12.3 which would dip down to 11.8 while rolling on the throttle. So, out of frustration, I dug out the old zener diodes and rectifier out of the bin of parts that were not going to be used in the build. It took all of about 10 minutes to get them all in place. Switched the wiring at the alternator to the correct white and white/green and fired the bike up. Got about 12.8 volts at idle and 13.4 volts at about 2500 rpm. Although it was very satisfying to get that result, it still begs the question of what the hell is going on with the other set up? I am happy to leave well enough alone and keep the zeners and rectifier for now. I'd like to ride the bike and shake it down so it can go past my industrial complex and out on the road. I am running a 12 volt coil, and as mentioned before, no ballast resistor. Am I good to keep this set up as is?

JCD said:

Switched the wiring at the alternator to the correct white and white/green

Click to expand...

As I mentioned previously, that would normally be a white/green and a green/yellow not "white".

You mentioned earlier that it is a Sparx "high output stator" but their high output alternator is 3-phase.
Their single-phase stator is higher output than the (120W) Lucas RM21 stator, however, a Mk3 normally has a 180W RM23 stator-so what exactly is fitted?

http://www.britcycle.com/products/33313 ... torKit.htm

Sorry LAB,
Meant to say white green and green yellow. Fat fingers typing on a small phone.
The stator is the Sparx single phase unit mated to a 200w capacity Podtronix unit. It was set up with the 2 green/yellow wires from the stator to the the 2 yellow wires of the regulator. The black lead went to the neg side of the battery and the red lead went to positive. I did this twice with both regulators showing no charging at idle or otherwise. I am running a power arc ignition, so ballast resistors and condensers are gone.
My question was 2 fold: what was the issue with the Pod unit set up both times? What are the chances of 2 being faulty? With the bike wired standard with the Lucas rectifier and both zener diodes in place, it all seems to work to design. The reason I ask is for next time I want to run this set up, or something similar. I'm just a bit confused as to why it would not work...twice. Thanks.

Unless both Pod. units were faulty-which is unlikely although not entirely impossible, then I can't think of any logical explanation for it happening twice. :?

JCD,

I did not read this post from the beginning but I have two quick questions.
Did you use the existing wire harness or were all your connections made with new wires?
Did you test the output of you alternator at the alternator leads?
Pete

I thought these videos were pretty good for understanding and measuring the charging system.

Just a thought...

http://www.roadstercycle.com/Roadstercy ... Videos.htm

Did you try disconnecting the assimilator? My 3-phase POD didn't get along with it (3AW type) but worked fine after I disconnected it. I'm pretty sure you didn't have 2 bad PODs.

Russ

batrider said:

Did you try disconnecting the assimilator?

Click to expand...

He said previously:

Installation of the POD unit was like any other...2 stator wires to the 2 yellow on unit. Red wire to + and black wire to - at battery. There is only the 12 volts of the new battery while running at idle or up to 2500-3000 rpm. I've read some threads from past charging issues and was not able to find a positive test for the POD unit.

I tried another set up as outlined by the supplier of the Sparx and POD unit. There was a drawing of it in the box when it arrived. He suggested that I try having jumper wires from the assimilator unit GW/GY wires in line with the yellow wires from the unit itself, all together being connected to the stator wires. Not sure if this had or has a negative impact or not, but the red warning light is still on,...

Click to expand...

Not too clear to me from that.

batrider said:

Not too clear to me from that.

Click to expand...

It seems reasonably clear from the description given in the first paragraph that the Pod. was initially connected directly to the stator and the battery-without the assimilator wiring (GY & WG) and this is when the apparent lack of charge was discovered.