Is there morals in business anymore

Having purchased 3 of the DD clutch rod seals from Dave, I'll have to say that this one from Norvil is not exactly the same. The difference is that
it appears to have an external boss which I assume would contain the O ring inserted from the other side.. The external face of the DD item
is flat and smooth but does have a recess on the inside for the O ring. Still, for all intent and purpose the two are the same.
While I cannot find it on their website now, I do recall seeing an exact duplicate of the DD item in one of A/N's digital newsletters in the past being
offered as a new item. Based on some of his posts on this forum, DD is fully aware the disrespect he has received from some people within
the Norton community.
The one I received from Norvil (not: 'Nortonbits') was exactly as you describe the DD item, and the instruction sheet reads: 'Clutch rod seal installation instructions for the Norton Commando by David Comeau'
So I assume it's either the real deal or p*ss taking of the highest order..... I lean towards the former :)
 
The one I received from Norvil (not: 'Nortonbits') was exactly as you describe the DD item, and the instruction sheet reads: 'Clutch rod seal installation instructions for the Norton Commando by David Comeau'
So I assume it's either the real deal or p*ss taking of the highest order..... I lean towards the former :)

I'm sure DD has mentioned previously that Norvil is a legitimate supplier and they also sell his high power Mk3 starter motor.
 
Lazyeye6,
You may have hit on something...

The disrespect + theft... both unearned.

Maybe that’s why it rubs me the wrong way.
Rod
 
Lazyeye6,
You may have hit on something...

The disrespect + theft... both unearned.

Maybe that’s why it rubs me the wrong way.
Rod

You’ve already stated your bias in the case.

As for theft, you know that CNW use to offer the DD seal. If they felt the product was up to their standards then they would have most likely kept offering it. But there’s no way that CNW would just copy and sell that particular product as is unless they felt they needed to modify it or is supplied were constricted. There just isn’t enough profit in it.

Following that logic and putting your bias aside what would you do if you were them?
 
Swooshdave,
bias?... guilty

It doesn’t change the facts as I know them...no one has shown me the difference or improvements...maybe there is...I would interested in seeing it. I have an open mind.

as far as the rest of your post...Your making a big assumption ...or showing your bias
 
I'm struggling some of this. No doubt with 20/20 hindsight some things could have been communicated differently but Norvil being held up and as an example of how best to do things????? Have any of the critics on here bought Wassell or other knock off parts, is Jim Comstock about to be thrown under a bus for redesigning the Dave Taylor headsteady? The list could be much longer.
 
Swooshdave,
bias?... guilty

It doesn’t change the facts as I know them...no one has shown me the difference or improvements...maybe there is...I would interested in seeing it. I have an open mind.

as far as the rest of your post...Your making a big assumption ...or showing your bias

Maybe you should ask Matt. You're the one who started this in an apparent attempt to smear CNW. Perhaps getting both sides of the story would have been a better first step.
 
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A couple of things.

Dynodave has Norvil listed as one of his official suppliers at the bottom of his webpage:

The cNw seal is made out of aluminium.
Dave’s is steel (or at least the last one I bought was).
 
Its a stupid state of affairs since the internet blew everybodys trade secrets and ideas, most people have no idea how much money you DONT make when you get into manufacturing, especially the bike industry.
 
Just an interesting observation :

Dave says on his website he designed the seal in 1989.
If he had patented it at that time, the patent would have expired a long time ago.




20 years

A U.S. utility patent, explained above, is generally granted for 20 years from the date the patent application is filed; however, periodic fees are required to maintain the enforceability of the patent. A design patent is generally granted protection for 14 years measured from the date the design patent is granted.Jul 7, 2016
.
 
Swooshdave,
I have asked the question...more than once. And finally someone has posted a possible difference.

It was not my intent to “smear” anyone... re-read the thread ...I did not start out with calling ANYONE out...latter..it was just an example...there are others

Matt has the ability and opportunity to speak for himself...maybe he will... I hope so...And we will have his rationale.

Because you can do something..doesn’t mean you should... That was the what I was getting at,
Rod
 
Swooshdave,
I have asked the question...more than once. And finally someone has posted a possible difference.

It was not my intent to “smear” anyone... re-read the thread ...I did not start out with calling ANYONE out...latter..it was just an example...there are others

Matt has the ability and opportunity to speak for himself...maybe he will... I hope so...And we will have his rationale.

Because you can do something..doesn’t mean you should... That was the what I was getting at,
Rod

Fair enough. I agree this is a sticky area. I just think people need to watch inflammatory words like "theft". For example Norvil has replica parts made all of the time although you can still buy them from AN. Do we consider that theft? Are they pattern parts or pirated parts? What's the difference? Educated buyers will tend to but the authentic part, unless they feel the other options is improved.

Is a Full Auto head a theft of intellectual property?

See how this can go?
 
Maybe counterfeit would have been a better choice of words...or is that too inflammatory...

Rod
 
Maybe counterfeit would have been a better choice of words...or is that too inflammatory...

Rod
Counterfeit refers to an item that is claimed to be something it is not.
If they sold it as Dave's part it would be counterfeit. It this case they did not so it is not.
 
The world is much more complicated that it seems people believe.

I'm selling 06.2035 (Headlamp Mounting Spacers) in polished stainless steel in the For Sale section - am I ripping off AN or anyone else who sells similar spacers? Am I counterfeiting the parts? I've had them made in the US to the same specifications as the originals by measuring originals, paying for the machine shop setup, and then paying for the production run and shipping to me - is anyone willing to say that I've stolen the intellectual property of Norton, or AN, or whoever originally designed them or holds any rights to the design? Since any such rights are long gone, should I expect anyone else who does the same thing as me to pay me royalties since I recently designed the ones I sell? Of course not!

Yes, I understand that there was an idea, a design, production, and marketing - of course, he should be paid for his effort - he is being paid by selling his product. This is just like the license plate brackets I designed, had made, and sell for 71/72 Commandos. There is no rocket science involved - someone might be producing something similar right now and so what. I saw a need, spent the money, and hope to eventually at least break even but if not, the bikes I've built that needed them have them https://www.gregmarsh.com/MC/Norton/LPB.aspx

BTW, I have no idea who invented the idea of reed valve breathers for Commandos, but there are getting to be a lot of them. All have the same basic concept but with different implementations. Are all after the first rip offs?
 
I don't think the Norvil/Andover situation is comparable.

Norvil have in the past approached and placed orders with the same engineering companies that Andover use to manufacture parts.
Jigs, fixtures and tooling which Andover own (and as is standard practice was stored at those engineering companies) were used to make those parts - the cost of which Andover would need to sell a huge quantity of in order to pay off the initial investment.

Norvil have also repaired a quantity of factory rejected parts and sold them as New Old Stock.

Neither scenario, in my opinion can compare.


Just a quick question from my side about this $25 nut - has anyone asked Dave Comeau or Matt Rambow about it directly?
Is this actually a problem?
 
I don't think for a minute that Matt is immoral in any way one bit, the title of the thread caught my attention and as I read it was surprised at what it was about. Really amazing to me that someone can use those terms to describe anyone. I'm sure he has these to go along with his belt drives, and Matt certainly does not need these to make a living. Silly if you ask me.
 
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