Is there a right and wrong way round to install Carrillo rod

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SteveA

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Since there is no oil jet hole the only optional way to install Carrillo rods is with the shell bearing locating tags to the front or to the back....

No mention of which way is prefered in the Carrillo or Jim Schmitt bumf.....so far I opted for tags at the back...but I have time to change ;-)

Any comments?
 
Re: Is there a right and wrong way round to install Carrillo

Steve,

Are you fitting them now? I thought I was working late - just had a beer. My Carrillos arrived from Steve Maney and he drills the rods to provide oil spray on the same side as the tags.The oil holes go to the front of the engine so the tags on my rods will be at the front but I doubt if it makes any difference.
 
Re: Is there a right and wrong way round to install Carrillo

I've just come in from the shed too after playing with top end and measuring the squish clearance. Hopefully the top end will be nailed together tomorrow, in fact, if I'm not careful, I might even have the engine in by Monday, ooh eck!!

I'm just having a stiff G&T cos the beer I have ain't strong enough!

Anyhow, I am also pretty sure that Jims rods can be fitted either way as there are no oil holes and the rods are basically symmetrical.
 
Re: Is there a right and wrong way round to install Carrillo

Normal Carrillo rods for Nortons can be fitted either way. If Jim's rods are not drilled (an option Carrillo offers, but says isn't needed), then you should be able to fit them either way also.

Ken
 
Re: Is there a right and wrong way round to install Carrillo

What I "heard" was that the oil holes in Stock alum rods were created for an early motor that had a piston problems and that they are useless in todays Nortons.

You still have to keep the cap the same way on the rod but you can flip the assembly.
 
Re: Is there a right and wrong way round to install Carrillo

A bad batch of pistons was the cause for the attempt to stop early sezures with rod oil hole for two very brief oil squirts toward piston pin but only one squirt tha can reach pin on the down stroke. Basically useless as the scar of a lost toe half way up horses legs.

I may notch the rim of big end like my lawn mower has for constant jet of the exiting oil pressure w/o subtracting anything from oil pressure wedge.
Is there a right and wrong way round to install Carrillo rod
 
Re: Is there a right and wrong way round to install Carrillo

BSA added the hole to try to cure a driveside piston seizure problem on the A65/A50, it was not the solution. The true cause was the Lucas 4CA cam which had too little dwell and caused a wandering premature spark hence the 6CA with the longer flat on the cam and the individually adjustable points plates. Triumph had the same problem to a lesser degree but never seen mention of how Norton were affected by the same fault.
 
Re: Is there a right and wrong way round to install Carrillo

Thats good, I don't have to take them off again then 8)

What fun measuring bolt stretch is.........more variance in unstretched bolts that I expected.....I was also surprised that Carrillo tightem them as much as they do.....had to pad them in cardboard and wood and pop them in the vice to get them loose...nice to find them ptoperly lubed thogh

I did the process of tensioning them several times.....then to get some confidence in the result I slackened the bolts bots off, set to torque to 35lb feet with my 40 year old torque wrench.....measured the stretch on each bolt again and behold it is in the middle of the tolerance at .150mm within .127 to 178.....

That'll do :|

But you gotta feel that just tightening to 35lb/ft would work....
 
Re: Is there a right and wrong way round to install Carrillo

But you gotta feel that just tightening to 35lb/ft would work....

Measuring stretch takes the variable of lubricant affecting the correct torque figure out of the equation plus any variation in thread sizes within the tolerance band eg bolt on top limit and nut on bottom limit will need more torque than bolt on bottom limit and nut on top limit. The torque figure is derived from the required stretch for the grade of steel used.
 
Re: Is there a right and wrong way round to install Carrillo

SteveA said:
Thats good, I don't have to take them off again then 8)

What fun measuring bolt stretch is.........more variance in unstretched bolts that I expected.....I was also surprised that Carrillo tightem them as much as they do.....had to pad them in cardboard and wood and pop them in the vice to get them loose...nice to find them ptoperly lubed thogh

I did the process of tensioning them several times.....then to get some confidence in the result I slackened the bolts bots off, set to torque to 35lb feet with my 40 year old torque wrench.....measured the stretch on each bolt again and behold it is in the middle of the tolerance at .150mm within .127 to 178.....

That'll do :|

But you gotta feel that just tightening to 35lb/ft would work....

I'm with you on that Steve, Carrillo supply the rods and the bolts, they control the material of both. They even supply the lube to use on the threads, with so much within their own control, I struggle to see why the cannot just give a torque setting!
 
Re: Is there a right and wrong way round to install Carrillo

kommando said:
BSA added the hole to try to cure a driveside piston seizure problem on the A65/A50, it was not the solution. The true cause was the Lucas 4CA cam which had too little dwell and caused a wandering premature spark hence the 6CA with the longer flat on the cam and the individually adjustable points plates. Triumph had the same problem to a lesser degree but never seen mention of how Norton were affected by the same fault.

Not saying the above wasn't true, but I think the problems with BSA unit twins were also to do with the utterly barking mad plain bearing timing side main bearing, which when new would condescend to provide barely enough oil to the big ends, and when worn was responsible for a near-terminal lock-up I experienced at 90 on the M61 a few years ago.
A chap can learn a lot about oiling systems when pondering things....

As with Triumph triples, which also rely on plain bearings to migrate oil around the system - it seems (from personal experience) that all the failures occurred at the furthest point from the oil pump.

Back on-topic, I remember Suzuki introducing dedicated oil jets for under-piston cooling on the (it has to be said, regrettably) superb GSX-R engines.
Drilling holes in con-rods will direct more oil towards the piston, but at the expense of sacrificing some oil pressure.

I read in previous posts about the LH cylinder needing more clearance on race engines 'back in the day', and wondered if the distance from the oil pump had any relevance.

Don't know the 'correct' answer though :roll:
 
Re: Is there a right and wrong way round to install Carrillo

kommando said:
The torque figure is derived from the required stretch for the grade of steel used.

The grade of steel has next to nothing to do with stretch since Young's Modulus for steel is 30,000 ksi, almost a constant for steel.

Stretch (strain) has everything to do with stress.
 
Re: Is there a right and wrong way round to install Carrillo

I go by measure of Norton rod bolt and crank bolt stretch till in the .0065" zone which takes a bit more than manual's 25 fl lb. What is the stretch sought in Carillo's rod bolts? Combat's worse original blow up feature was the poor design/fabrication of the AAU which was soon upgraded enough the crank bearings didn't last as long as the newer AAU's so next weakest point dealt with and so on, more or less. JSM NASCAR piston pins don't need but splash lube and it takes about as much oil as crank passes in a minute to get measurable crown cooling of 100' F so why bother. So on that note is there really a right or wrong way to install holey Norton rods?
 
Re: Is there a right and wrong way round to install Carrillo

For you imperial guys.....the Carrillo data with Jim's rod says .050" to .070", so your .065" would be good and close to the 35 to 37 lb ft, which JIm recommends for his rods if you don't have a mike....
 
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